Hello From Me With Photo Of First Watch (Helvetia)

[PhilB]

Hello Guys

 

I though I'd introduce myself to the forum.

 

I was looking for a hobby for the winter months that involved fixing/re-conditioning things and decided I'd like to give watches a try. The fact it doesn't take up much space and create a mess is a bonus.

 

I'm not sure if I've chosen the right watch to start off with, but it's a Helvetia (working).

 

My knowledge consists of absolutely zero information about watches, so I have a steep learning curve ahead of me.

 

My plan, unless advised otherwise, is to strip down and build it back up. If it still runs, i'll be very proud with myself.

 

Any thoughts on this watch as a place to learn watch repair?

 

 

[WillFly]

Welcome to the forum! That looks like a very nice movement and my advice would be - if the Helvetia is running - to buy a really cheap movement to practise on first. One where it doesn't matter if you happen to mess it up!

Edited August 27, 2014 by WillFly

[PhilB]

I thought this was a really cheap movement to be honest - i paid around £8 for it

 

It runs but stops intermittentlly.

 

Is it too good to practice on?

[WillFly]

Wow - £8 is a good price to pay! Well done.

 

If it's running intermittently at the moment - and you only paid that much for it - I can't see anything wrong with having a bash!

 

The advice from many of us here would be: As you go along, take notes/photographs of what you do so you can reconstruct the movement after disassembly.

 

Sounds like it needs a good clean. Best of luck!

[PhilB]

Im tempted to pick up a non-runner or two now, but I'm having trouble finding some screwdrivers that are small enough.

 

Can you recommend something. I wonder if I should get a good single screwdrivers rather than a lower quality set.

 

Phil

[WillFly]

It's better, on the whole, to get a set of different sizes as the screws in a watch movement will be of different sizes as well. A driver that's too big or too small can damage the screw head slot - particularly if the screw is a little stiff. I don't see any harm in getting a cheap'ish set to start with if that's what you can afford. It's always best to buy the highest quality you can, but we aren't all made of money. A good pair of steel tweezers and a good pair of brass tweezers (brass is softer than steel) will be essential, plus a movement holder and a hands puller. Don't forget some plastic containers with compartments (or several individual containers) for parts. I'm sure other friends on the forum - more experienced than me - will have lots of good advice on tools and procedures.

[PhilB]

Thanks WillFly - you've been a good help

[WillFly]

You're very welcome!

 

Cheers,

 

Will

[Don]

Welcome from another Newbie. That's a nice looking movement. I'm starting with a fairly common movement so it's easy to find replacement parts cheap. I actually bought four of the same movement for this purpose. So far it's worked out well since I've broken two escape wheel pivots and lost three click springs. All I need to do is look at a spring and it flies across the room. :startle:

 

Good luck and have fun!

 

Don

[PhilB]

How do you find out what movements are in the watch?

 

Having a couple of spares sound like a good idea.

 

Thanks for the welcome.

[Don]

I think this is your movement:

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&ETA_2516

 

This website is a great resource for movement info.

 

Don

[PhilB]

Ah ha, thanks for sharing that. 

 

I'll bookmark the page and have a google.

 

Are certain movements in multiple makes of watch or do manufacturers make their own?

[Don]

There are forum users much more knowledgeable about that subject that I am. But in short, some watch manufacturers make their own movements in house, Seiko for instance, but many more buy them from movement manufacturers, most notably ETA.

[WillFly]

It's very varied - and has varied over the years. Manufacturers like Omega and Enicar tended to use their own movements. Other marques, like Majex, for example, might use an Enicar movement - perhaps with their own name stamped on it. I have at least two differently named watches - the Swiss Actua make and the Swedish City make - that both use the ETA 1100 movement.

[bobm12]

Hi PhilB, welcome to the forum. You'll be surprised how hooked you'll be with this hobby...it may last more than a winter! In any case, good size and type movement to start with. You will need some tech specs that I haven't been able to locate for you so far but you can always take as many pictures as possible of your progress as Will suggested. It really helps.

 

I would recommend to be very careful witht the balance wheel and hairspring. First thing I do is remove the cock and wheel and place it wheel up in a safe place (I have a plastic case for it and a tack which I use sometimes). That will avoid damaging it accidentally. Handle with lots and lots of care!

 

Also I would recommend to get the best tools you can afford but the main ones are in order: Tweezers, Tweezers, Tweezers and Screw drivers! Buy the best tweezers you cannot afford! And the best screw drivers you can. Then you can get a real good movement holder and don't forget tools to open and close the watches you work on (you don't want to scratch them with substandard ones...scratch them with the expensive ones :) ). A cheapo press is good to start with and then the rest will come as needs crawl in!

 

So again, welcome and enjoy our forum!

[PhilB]

As a newbie it's difficult to justify spending good money on tools to start a hobby you may not stick with.

 

There's also the added challenge of not knowing a good set of tweezers or screwdrivers from a bad set.

 

These look good but can I get away with something a little cheaper?

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Professional-Precision-AF-Makers-Screwdriver/dp/B001R5KSK4/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1409177225&sr=8-9&keywords=bergeon

[bobm12]

That's a good price for a set of 4 I believe. Esslinger has a set of 6 AF brand for US$74 (consider currency conversion and shipping/waiting time). AF are not bad at all, still, I spent 4 or 5 times as much for my current set from Bergeon and some AF, Horotec and Moded No Name Brand mixed in.

 

As a matter of fact, my first set was cheaper but notice that the blades are held in place by screws so the tolerances and the shape of the blades at the base, where they fit into the handle, are important. The cheap sets will not allow for control, presicion and proper tightness since the blades will wobble -- and sometimes won't align well -- into their "sockets". In other words, they will not be rigid enough, or/and staight enough, at a certain or all tension. Better sets include more refinements enhancing the feel  which is what is all about in such small devices that are movements.

 

Remember, never use brute force in a watch..but some coaxing is sometimes (often?) necessary. That's where the feel is important. In addition, the material the blades are made of or how it was treated has an impact on durability. It is all a presicion game from the movement to the tools you use, therefore, expensive.

 

Also remember, don't forget the tweezers! if you don't want to mess/maim/lose movement parts and/or spend more time on the floor looking for parts than necessary, buy the best tweezers you can afford. Dumont are probably the best you can get at a reasonable price if you consider other brands like Bergeon and Horotec which pump up the price a lot (although they are good quality) You will need a #2 and a #5 most likely but you can get away with 2 #2's. (or 5's) The trick with tweezers is to learn what they can do so you don't ruin a good pair before its time.

 

In fact, when you think about it, spending money is part of the hobby too!!! :thumbsd: Hope this all helps to get you started in this awesome hobby.

[Don]

Cousins has those a little cheaper...

 

https://www.cousinsuk.com/catalog/tools/screwdriver-sets/af-swiss-stainless-steel-non-magnetic-5-pieces

 

Good tweezers make life much easier and they're "relatively" inexpensive, around £17.95 for excellent quality Dumont #2 on Cousins. They have Indian brass tweezers for £1.75. The Indian brass tweezers I have aren't bad. YMMV.

 

https://www.cousinsuk.com/catalog/tools/dumont-tweezers/tweezers-dumont-no2-medium-tips (I have the Duxomel)

https://www.cousinsuk.com/catalog/tools/brass-tweezers/tweezers-brass-indian

[Don]

Oh, and check out Mark's post here:

 

http://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/33-article10-essential-tools-every-watch-repairer-needs/

[bobm12]

Good call Don, and great link from our site! I wonder if it could be made a sticky.

 

Also it would be a good idea to develop it more with more involved tools and techniques. Sometimes I see stuff out ther and I can't even imagine what is it used for and if they tell me I wouldn't know better either.

[Vich]

I started off buying cheap screwdrivers and can't emphasise enough what a mistake it was. I eventually looked at the size of the screws and bought 3 good quality ones and they are a delight to work with. What is possible is buying a cheaper but good fitting driver that you can replace the blades with Bergeon spare blades that can reduce the spend. Look for a set that locates the blade with grub screws, the pin holder types that screw to tighten are not as good in my view.

Use your iPad or phone to take pictures of the movement at every stage of dismantling and if there are parts with quirky fittings try to get close up shots of them. This makes a difference when putting it back together.

Small bits fly off to oblivion for any reason at all, springs, screws - anything, then you spend an age trying to find them. I got an A3 sheet of white card at a craft shop to work on and it helps. Do not pick up small screws etc. with your tweezers and think that holding them tightly will stop them from dropping, the opposite applies as excessive pressure just turns the tweezers into a device for propulsion as the tips rock open using the screw as a bearing - firm but gentle.

Get some Rodico to lift things, it's a bit like blue tack but more useful. Use it to pick up small stuff.

Be on the look out for the one left hand threaded screw in the movement - check out Mark's videos and a guy called bunnspecial as well.

Mark just knows where everything goes inherently after years in his profession but I find it prudent to keep the parts for each stage in order then work backwards to re fit them - tops off large plastic milk containers are good.

The good oil costs more than gold and I am not joking - good luck with that one and if you find a way of getting it cheap tell me ! The consensus is that the cheap oils in general are bad, however, if you are in practice mode on a really cheap watch will generic watch oil be a bad thing - this is a vexed issue and opinions will vary greatly - whatever, don't use too much as that is just as bad as none at all. Again watch Mark's videos - he can really make a 2 mill phial last for ages (:-))

Welcome and it is fun !

[PhilB]

Thanks Vich

 

I don't have a lot of spare cash, so I'm avoiding buying everything in one go.

 

With this in mind, I've bought 3x A*F screwdrivers (0.8,1,1.2), pointer removers, movement holder and brass tweezers.

 

So now at least I have the the tools to strip a movement.

 

I'll photograph everything thoroughly while stripping and take a look at those videos. There's also a watch repairing book mentioned earlier in the thread I'd like to get on the kindle too.

[RosscoInOshawa]

Hi PhilB and welcome!  I'm a fellow newbie - complete newbie to the watch repair world - and I feel your pain.  I had to buy virtually everything from scratch and the people here in these forums are very helpful!

 

For what its worth get the best you can afford in known brand name tools.  Skip the cheap tools but that's just my two cents worth.

 

I've been finding that trying to get good cheap 'donor' watches somewhat difficult, at least here in Canada.  I'm willing to spend a little extra if its got potential but the junk that I've been finding isn't worth it.

 

Good Luck!

[bobm12]

If I may, my two cents, when looking for a donor watch and/or watches to donate to each other (for lack of better words), I always follow some unbreakable rules. I check that the balance turns, and at least it works a little, even intermittently would do. If automatic, that the rotor is not stuck and if with bezel that it still turns somehow. If possible check how the movement looks although sometimes there is only the description and a bad picture. I've even been lucky or maybe I'm doing something right since I've got good watches to practice on so far by following the above.

 

"A man's got to have rules" -- The Transporter

 

:D

[Legarm]

As for not taking up much space .... mmmmmm ...... I am constantly nagged for taking up half the spare room with table, tools and watch equipment. I use ice cube trays when stripping a watch, tends to keep all the various stages in one spot. Oh and a thumping great magnet for looking for the parts that have pinged into the watchmakers blackhole....