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Best movements for practice?


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Hi and welcome!

The Cyma is nice and quite desirable watch so I'd leave it for now. Its not a difficult watch to work on but it would be a shame if something went wrong with this. Parts are probably available but since you have others..

As mention earlier,  the Vostok will be the best bet as its fairly cheap and also quite easy to work with. They are plenty for sale on the net so if you need parts theres a ready source.

This applies to the Seiko as well except it has a day and date function and its also an automatic. The fact that it runs is a bonus . If it doesn't work after you put it back together then you know you've done something wrong. The problem with beginners working on non running watches is some issues may be difficult to diagnose.

The Unicorn is probably the best of the lot. If I'm not mistaken the ones made before WW2 were a made by Rolex. Maybe a Rolex expert can comment on this?

Good luck!

Anilv

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Thanks for all of the replies.

I haven't been able to get the Cyma case back off and will wait until I have a better tool, the case already has quite a few marks on it no need to add some extra ones.

I removed the Wostok case back see the pic below, the case back has the usual shock resist etc stuff on it and also the number 2809. The same number is also stamped on the inside of the movement just to the left of the hair spring. I Googled this and some are of the opinion that the 2809 movement is a better class of movement I also noticed that the discolouration on the gear near the crown is actually solidified grease, so perhaps all this needs is a good clean and lubricate. Once cleaned up I think it would look quite good with a leather band in place of that ugly expanding band

I also Googled Unicorn movement and see that in all probability it was made by Rolex in the early days as their cheap alternative before they settled on the name Tudor - however as the name Rolex is nowhere on the watch it can't really be considered a Rolex although I see in my internet search that some have taken the liberty to do so. With regard to the crystal/glass on this watch is the yellow/amber colour due to age or would it have been made in this way and would it be plastic or glass ?.

Wostok movmnt.jpg

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"With a bit of luck you will find 6x or 10x scrap 2209 movements on eBay for around $15."

Not this one you won't......

" As mention earlier,  the Vostok will be the best bet as its fairly cheap"

As above....

 

The Vostok 2209 came in several different variants of differing quality and jewel count. It's basically a very good movement, based on the Zenith chronometer cal 135.

The version that you have is the "Volna" or "Precision" grade movement which has the higher jewel count, a larger balance (for improved stability of rate), a Breguet hair spring, and micrometer regulator for fine rate adjustment. To achieve the "Precision" grading as shown on the dial it has also passed Vostoks own version of COSC testing.

This is effectively a chronometer grade watch and is considered by many to be one of the finest movements to come out of the USSR. It is quite collectable, and in this format, uncommon. If you damage the balance, hair spring, or regulator you will find it next to impossible to find replacements anywhere, and the standard 2209 parts will not be a suitable substitute.

The watch appears to be in great condition inside and out and probably needs only a proper clean and service to restore it to excellence.

I would not recommend using this as a starter watch for working on; even though it's a Vostok it possibly has the highest value of the four, along with the Unicorn, which although it isn't a Rolex proper, it is part of the Rolex story and has a following. Of the four you have the least valuable, and easiest to source spares for is probably the Seiko, and on that basis it's probably the best to start off with. However, I would suggest picking up a couple of simple time only manual winding watches nice and cheap off eBay to cut your teeth on before tackling the ones that you have.

The salvaged dental U/S cleaner (assuming it is operational) will be fine. Mine was salvaged from a print shop where it was used for cleaning print heads on a high end inkjet printer.

Edited by Marc
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I didn't expect that ! Not a Vostok 2209 at all .......... I would mind to get my hands on such a watch, I haven't been so lucky so far  ! And indeed, with all respect, not for starters. Keep it safe until you feel confident, a nice movement: congratulations ! :)

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If you want to get into manual watch repairing I always suggest you start with a pocket watch, they’re a lot bigger than a standard manual watch movement, you learn how to take it to pieces and put it back, you don’t need to bother about repairing it just practice, this will help you in using your screwdrivers and tweezers. Get to know what the parts are called. Do not work on fusee pocket watches, as those are completely different to manual watches

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4 hours ago, Endeavor said:

I didn't expect that ! Not a Vostok 2209 at all ..........

My bad..... my post should read 2809 and not 2209.

That's what you get for typing at 06:00 before the first coffee has kicked in.

 

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Have a look at these links with regard to your Unicorn watch.

http://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/blogrolexbrands.php

http://www.qualitytyme.net/pages/quality_time/restoration_oyster.html

Nearly an old Rolex!  The movement is a "BTC" which stands for Beguelin & Cie SA, Damas and Tramelan.

Edited by Geo
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Once again thanks for all of the replies, I was leaning towards the Seiko but following the advice I have purchased a Mumbai special from an Indian Ebay seller, this was the cheapest watch I could find - manual wind. From the ad photos I was able to match the movement photo to one online of a ST96 (I think). I watched a few Youtube videos on Mumbai watches and the general opinion is that while they look nice they are for the most part poorly serviced/assembled so it seems like the perfect watch to practise on, and possibly give me some experience on fault finding. An added bonus is that it has a new band that may even be real leather- I may be able to use it down the track. I have around 4 weeks to wait for it so that will give me time to make a movement holder and source some of the other things I should have.
Link to the Mumbai watch on The 'Bay
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VINTAGE-NIVADA-17J-HAND-WINDING-MOVEMENT-MENS-ANALOG-DIAL-WRIST-WATCH-RA24/263270632785?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

Thanks for the links about the Unicorn watch it makes interesting reading, I rather like the look of it, I'd like to get it to the stage where is can be worn - fortunately the case is silver so it has no corrosion.

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Thanks for the suggestions. The Ronda has been added to my next Cousins order and I'm watching the second hand market for the other two. I've also added Moebius Synthetic 9034/2 also to my next Cousins order as I do not have any oil suitable for quartz movements yet.

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16 minutes ago, Tmuir said:

Thanks for the suggestions. The Ronda has been added to my next Cousins order and I'm watching the second hand market for the other two. I've also added Moebius Synthetic 9034/2 also to my next Cousins order as I do not have any oil suitable for quartz movements yet.

9034/2 ? Why not use 9000/2 ? 

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  • 1 month later...
On 21/12/2017 at 5:10 PM, jdm said:

Mark Lovick teaches on the Unitas 6497, and for good reasons. Purchasing and following his Hi-Res training is the best way to learn :biggrin:

 

 

yes i have actually enrolled on this course and realise the 6497 is ideal but it is also expensive and i was just looking for a cheaper but common movement with readily available spares.just in case i err somewhat! bernie.

Edited by berniethebolt
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Just now, berniethebolt said:

yes i have actually enrolled on this course and realise the 6497 is ideal but it is also expensive and i was just looking for a cheaper but common movement with readily available spares.just in case i err somewhat!brnie.

Not really expensive, TY3621 is £33.95 from Cousins. You can probably get it for less on a complete watch like Parnis. Unfortunately spare parts are not available for Chinese movements but you can move on quickly to smaller Seikos 7S/4R/6R for which parts are easily available.

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Look on eBay for the Chinese clones of the 6497 & 6498. They're considerably cheaper than a real Swiss one and almost identical. The other thing to go for is look for pocket watches not running and don't purchase them with the intent of making them run. Purchase them with the intent of practicing putting them together and taking them apart without breaking anything. The only way you get good at not breaking things is by practicing lots of practicing preferably on something that you care about.

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Look on eBay for the Chinese clones of the 6497 & 6498. They're considerably cheaper than a real Swiss one and almost identical. The other thing to go for is look for pocket watches not running and don't purchase them with the intent of making them run. Purchase them with the intent of practicing putting them together and taking them apart without breaking anything. The only way you get good at not breaking things is by practicing lots of practicing preferably on something that you care about.
Chinese movements may or may not be a good idea. I remember some think about Mark saying he had issues with a balance on a Chinese clone he was using on his training course. He discovered punch marks on the mainplate to increase the end shake. And after several refitting he had to do the same to keep the watch going.
Ok I've done this on a couple of old pocket watches when replacing the staff but on a brand new movement from the manufacturer!
If this is prevalent to Chinese manufacture, it could prove a nightmare to somebody starting off.
I could of got this wrong, the old brain is fading these days but Mark could answer this?

Sent from my SM-T585 using Tapatalk

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There is probably a conceivably different qualities to the Chinese movements. I actually have used the Chinese pocket watch movements in a classroom situation worked just fine. But when buying Chinese stuff the quality can range from I'm not sure I can use the words describe the poor end of the quality to very good. So my personal experience has been other than a few minor things that are actually good.

So trying remember the problems we had were the incabloc Isn't quite made right. If you do a search on this message board it recently came up others have noticed that problem. Then the etachron system had a habit of drifting around it had a mind of its own. Then the glue for the hairspring stun would disintegrate if you clean the watch more than a couple of times.

 

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  • 1 year later...

Hi,

I would start with a nice simple manual wind no day-date complication Watch, maybe something like an ST96.

I did four of those and they run very well now, in fact, I can now do those pretty much blindfolded.

Then build up to a day complication and so on.

You can get a Seiko NH35 movement when your ready for about £25 on Ebay which would be great for practice.

Good luck.

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