Seiko 6139-6009 opinions wanted.

[Johnnie]

Hi all. Recently I bought a Seiko 6139-6009 and wanted your opinions on the watch. I am no expert on Seikos or any other watch come to that lol. Anyway I now have this watch, I know it's a "notch" case, it works and functions correctly but the buttons feel gummed up and the lower button protrudes from the case more than the upper button. The glass has many scratches and the case has age related marks, these things I can tell just by looking. What I need to know is,,, how right or wrong is it? I don't know if it has the correct strap, hands etc... And what you would do to it? The movement is not rusty and ticks away happily. Many thanks. Johnnie.     PS what is the difference between 6139-6002 and 6139-6009?

[rogart63]

Nice one. Looks okay to me. The upper pusher is a shorter version. That is to short. Gummed up pushers is usually gaskets that is sticky. New gaskets you can find on Ebay or from VTA . Other then that it looks like it's original. 

https://thespringbar.com/blogs/guides/the-seiko-6139-600x-collectors-guide

Edited October 18, 2017 by rogart63

[Johnnie]

Hi Rogart, I forgot to mention that the date moves on perfectly but the day is only half showing. I am really pleased you think it looks original as I had no idea, I admit it was the "notch" case that attracted me to it and with very little experience I could easily have made a mistake. I will take your advice about the seals etc, many thanks again.

[Chopin]

It certainly looks like it needs a service. If you service it you've got one hell of a watch!

[rogart63]

1 hour ago, Johnnie said:

Hi Rogart, I forgot to mention that the date moves on perfectly but the day is only half showing. I am really pleased you think it looks original as I had no idea, I admit it was the "notch" case that attracted me to it and with very little experience I could easily have made a mistake. I will take your advice about the seals etc, many thanks again.

Not sure why the day is half showing But could be that it doesn't sit properly in the movement. You shift the day by pressing the crown inwards. Does the inner bezel moves when you turn the crown? 

A service is probably what it needs in the future. good thing that the chronograph is working . Then you now that the chronograph wheel is okay. Almost everything else is obtainable. 

 

[Johnnie]

Yes inner bezel turns perfectly. 

[Johnnie]

Hi Chopin, I think you are right about needing a service. It will get put aside until I feel more confident of my abilities. I would love to service the watch and aim to in the future.

[Pip]

You’ll need a bit of practice before you tackle this one probably. Beautiful watch, I love it. You asked about differences between 6139-6002and 6139-6009... 6139 refers to the movement, so you know both watches have the same workings. 6002 and 6009 are both 600x case styles, the last digit tells you that 6002 was destined for Europe and 6009 is one of the USA ones I think.


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[Johnnie]

Hi Pip. Yes much more practice. I must do Mark's courses before attempting anything too ambitious. I have been wearing the watch over last 28hours and it's keeping excellent time so that's a pleasant bonus. Thank you for the watch number information.

[anilv]

Nice watch! With regards to the pushers. Methinks you don't have a watch with one pusher sticking too far out. Instead you have one with the pusher stuck halfway down. I would recommend a good clean of the case and pushers/crown for a start. I don't know how capable you are with regards to watches but a general clean-up is well within the capabilities of someone with basic watchmaking tools.

You need to get the watchback off first, then remove the crown (if I remember correctly the button is accessible thru a hole in the plate) paying attention to the spring and gear which turns the inner ring.. these should come out with the crown/stem assembly. You then have to press both pushers in a bit and while applying pressure remove the movement spacer. Once the ring is out the pushers will pull away as the movement ring is the only thing holding them in. Once the pushers and crown are out of the watch the movement will just drop out of the case so be careful not to drop it. A good way is to place a movement pad (or a round thingy) on the rear of the watch, flip the whole thing over and lift the case off, leaving the movement sitting on the movement pad.

Once you have the pushers and crown out of the case you can use some sharpened pegwood to remove bits of DNA from the recesses of the crown and pushers. Work on a piece of clean paper you can throw away later as it can get pretty dirty. Once you've got them clean you can use some Zippo fluid or similar to flush them out followed by a final pass thru with fresh pegwood. Put them aside for the moment.

Next remove all the springbars from the strap and examine them and replace if they're rusty or bent. Seikos usually have good springbars but neglect and wear can ruin them. The clasp may have a fixed bar instead of a spring bar on the end where you pull so don't worry if you can't get it off. Just try to pull it apart and if it holds then its good. Once the parts are out give them a good scrub with soap and water (only the strap parts! not the case!). Hot water helps and if you have access to an ultrasonic cleaner so much better.

Next pay attention to the case, especially around the holes where the pushers and crown goes..there will be some dirt in there as well. Clean them up followed by cleaning the area where the watchband goes. Next go around the watch exterior cleaning everything. The o-ring will probably be as hard as a rock and you will probably break it when trying to remove it. There is no escaping this as this is a common area for rust. You will need some o-rings and some silicon oil on reassembly here. ebay usually has some acceptable parts or watch factors may be able to help. The gap between crystal and crystal ring can be cleaned with a sharp pegwood.. likewise the seam between crystal ring and case. Amazing how much dirt accumulates. Finally use a clean soft tissue to wipe the inside of the crystal and blow out with your puffer tool thing to remove the dust from the tissue. If you are tempted to polish out the case with autosol or similar..be careful around the edges as sharp edges are a key point in maintaining the value of the watch.

Now get rid of the paper with all the dirt and replace with a fresh one. You now rebuild the watch starting by lowering the case onto the movement (which you have perched on the suitable round thing), This is easier to manage than dropping the movement into the case. Once lowered, flip the case, movement, round thing over as a unit and remove the round thing. Next lightly oil the seal on the pushers with some silicon oil and insert them into the case. If they seem tight swap them around and see if that helps. So now you have the case loose in the movement and the pushers in their tube, applying light pressure (not enough to activate the chrono mech) on both pushers, reinstall the movement ring, making sure it seats fully in its recess and then remove pressure on the pushers. Next oil the crown o-ring with some silicon oil and insert the crown/stem back into its place. It should click nicely with no drama as long as the movement is lined up correctly with the hole in the case.

Finally get the new o-ring into its groove having first oiled it with some silicon grease and re-install the caseback followed by the freshly cleaned strap.

This is as far as you can go without access to new parts and some more advanced skills. The problem with these Seikos is basically the hands.. or to be more specific, the seconds hand. Chronos need a seconds hand which can be indexed to the pinion so the relationship between the two does not change. Seiko does this by having a flat side machined on the end of the seconds pinion. A new seconds hand deforms when installed and so will not move. Pattern parts are available but I've heard some horror stories on the quality. New old stock (NOS) may come up for sale but at high prices. Used seconds-hand will not work as the flat on the pinion is not in the same place on every seconds pinion.

Assuming you have managed to secure a new seconds hand, it needs to be installed with some force, enough to get it down the pinion, deforming as it goes.  As you're pushing it down you need to ensure the pinion does not move. The proper movement holder has pushers which allow you to press the reset button in while pressing the new seconds hand down to ensure it is exactly on the '0'. 

The movement itself is pretty simple as far as chronographs go. If it looks clean when you open it up I would say its ok for an occasional watch. On these watches a typical sign it needs a service is if the watch stops with the second hand at the 58 seconds mark or thereabouts. If you're planning to use it more often then a service by someone who knows what they're doing is required. Restoration with aftermarket parts is possible but I believe these unmolested examples are more sought after now. A notch case denotes an early watch but the 'water-resist dial means it is not the earliest as the very early ones had 'water-proof' on the dial.

The crystal is polishable but I think its better done by a proffessional. There are some experts on polishing crystals here so maybe they could comment?

Enjoy your Seiko..

Anilv

 

[Johnnie]

Hi Anilv, Thank you so much for the above information,, I need it LOL. I won't do anything yet as my knowledge and skills are not up to pace. Thanks again, Johnnie

[jdm]

On 10/25/2017 at 5:32 AM, anilv said:

The crystal is polishable but I think its better done by a proffessional. There are some experts on polishing crystals here so maybe they could comment?

That's very easy, just use search box on top right.

[Watchtime]

On 25-10-2017 at 5:32 AM, anilv said:

This is a watchcourse in a nutshell....well done Anilv

 

Nice watch! With regards to the pushers. Methinks you don't have a watch with one pusher sticking too far out. Instead you have one with the pusher stuck halfway down. I would recommend a good clean of the case and pushers/crown for a start. I don't know how capable you are with regards to watches but a general clean-up is well within the capabilities of someone with basic watchmaking tools.

You need to get the watchback off first, then remove the crown (if I remember correctly the button is accessible thru a hole in the plate) paying attention to the spring and gear which turns the inner ring.. these should come out with the crown/stem assembly. You then have to press both pushers in a bit and while applying pressure remove the movement spacer. Once the ring is out the pushers will pull away as the movement ring is the only thing holding them in. Once the pushers and crown are out of the watch the movement will just drop out of the case so be careful not to drop it. A good way is to place a movement pad (or a round thingy) on the rear of the watch, flip the whole thing over and lift the case off, leaving the movement sitting on the movement pad.

Once you have the pushers and crown out of the case you can use some sharpened pegwood to remove bits of DNA from the recesses of the crown and pushers. Work on a piece of clean paper you can throw away later as it can get pretty dirty. Once you've got them clean you can use some Zippo fluid or similar to flush them out followed by a final pass thru with fresh pegwood. Put them aside for the moment.

Next remove all the springbars from the strap and examine them and replace if they're rusty or bent. Seikos usually have good springbars but neglect and wear can ruin them. The clasp may have a fixed bar instead of a spring bar on the end where you pull so don't worry if you can't get it off. Just try to pull it apart and if it holds then its good. Once the parts are out give them a good scrub with soap and water (only the strap parts! not the case!). Hot water helps and if you have access to an ultrasonic cleaner so much better.

Next pay attention to the case, especially around the holes where the pushers and crown goes..there will be some dirt in there as well. Clean them up followed by cleaning the area where the watchband goes. Next go around the watch exterior cleaning everything. The o-ring will probably be as hard as a rock and you will probably break it when trying to remove it. There is no escaping this as this is a common area for rust. You will need some o-rings and some silicon oil on reassembly here. ebay usually has some acceptable parts or watch factors may be able to help. The gap between crystal and crystal ring can be cleaned with a sharp pegwood.. likewise the seam between crystal ring and case. Amazing how much dirt accumulates. Finally use a clean soft tissue to wipe the inside of the crystal and blow out with your puffer tool thing to remove the dust from the tissue. If you are tempted to polish out the case with autosol or similar..be careful around the edges as sharp edges are a key point in maintaining the value of the watch.

Now get rid of the paper with all the dirt and replace with a fresh one. You now rebuild the watch starting by lowering the case onto the movement (which you have perched on the suitable round thing), This is easier to manage than dropping the movement into the case. Once lowered, flip the case, movement, round thing over as a unit and remove the round thing. Next lightly oil the seal on the pushers with some silicon oil and insert them into the case. If they seem tight swap them around and see if that helps. So now you have the case loose in the movement and the pushers in their tube, applying light pressure (not enough to activate the chrono mech) on both pushers, reinstall the movement ring, making sure it seats fully in its recess and then remove pressure on the pushers. Next oil the crown o-ring with some silicon oil and insert the crown/stem back into its place. It should click nicely with no drama as long as the movement is lined up correctly with the hole in the case.

Finally get the new o-ring into its groove having first oiled it with some silicon grease and re-install the caseback followed by the freshly cleaned strap.

This is as far as you can go without access to new parts and some more advanced skills. The problem with these Seikos is basically the hands.. or to be more specific, the seconds hand. Chronos need a seconds hand which can be indexed to the pinion so the relationship between the two does not change. Seiko does this by having a flat side machined on the end of the seconds pinion. A new seconds hand deforms when installed and so will not move. Pattern parts are available but I've heard some horror stories on the quality. New old stock (NOS) may come up for sale but at high prices. Used seconds-hand will not work as the flat on the pinion is not in the same place on every seconds pinion.

Assuming you have managed to secure a new seconds hand, it needs to be installed with some force, enough to get it down the pinion, deforming as it goes.  As you're pushing it down you need to ensure the pinion does not move. The proper movement holder has pushers which allow you to press the reset button in while pressing the new seconds hand down to ensure it is exactly on the '0'. 

The movement itself is pretty simple as far as chronographs go. If it looks clean when you open it up I would say its ok for an occasional watch. On these watches a typical sign it needs a service is if the watch stops with the second hand at the 58 seconds mark or thereabouts. If you're planning to use it more often then a service by someone who knows what they're doing is required. Restoration with aftermarket parts is possible but I believe these unmolested examples are more sought after now. A notch case denotes an early watch but the 'water-resist dial means it is not the earliest as the very early ones had 'water-proof' on the dial.

The crystal is polishable but I think its better done by a proffessional. There are some experts on polishing crystals here so maybe they could comment?

Enjoy your Seiko..

Anilv