Jump to content

My First Balance Staff - Need some advive


Recommended Posts

I just completed cutting my first balance staff on a lathe. All went well on the balance/hairspring side, including undercutting and leaving enough material to make the rivet. On the roller table side however, i cut a smidgen too much. Is there any way to tighten the roller table on or di i need to cut a new staff? I thought shellac on the post would harden and keep the table on. I still need to jacott the pivots, so am i waisting my time?

a661fc5f83101f0c50e6545520c5acf2.jpg9448f018ba52bc5ef968bc5b4f4572b9.jpg3c3e89d6b4af556e1689c44da6b6107a.jpg1fa364090bf8573a1573fe5b75db3049.jpga4dc217c5419d43dca0d97c40c1efb15.jpg26d4ecb70462e727ae771970d2d81a9e.jpgb2350b43733b2e39b0354d80d4f46aa5.jpg5b4c9e301b8ee136310fa056540830ed.jpg3aa5394b4d32b37db8f3cc63b55a2a67.jpg6b9c2d27bd3c565309c52db146a43f28.jpg

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just completed cutting my first balance staff on a lathe. All went well on the balance/hairspring side, including undercutting and leaving enough material to make the rivet. On the roller table side however, i cut a smidgen too much. Is there any way to tighten the roller table on or di i need to cut a new staff? I thought shellac on the post would harden and keep the table on. I still need to jacott the pivots, so am i waisting my time?
a661fc5f83101f0c50e6545520c5acf2.jpg&key=b63cfe8f836ff14588d3c1c5f13600455fa785f06c37f0c09647ab1e1c649c4b9448f018ba52bc5ef968bc5b4f4572b9.jpg&key=a150f0a233c327a68af670bb2cab24a85616bb20889a849a9c04e63f9794eaf13c3e89d6b4af556e1689c44da6b6107a.jpg&key=429ae1a5f0fa40a6eae5074b62565652e2e68ed4b84e84fa6bf4e9ac7577b0131fa364090bf8573a1573fe5b75db3049.jpg&key=4afb3571344584787b4c366efb07ac9f7704f5efbb9f37274e08c1d06a5749eea4dc217c5419d43dca0d97c40c1efb15.jpg&key=3d8c789ab151e06eac6e3d3e87d87c931ccade8993c72f9679c58c09ac46fd3326d4ecb70462e727ae771970d2d81a9e.jpg&key=becc5cd55829a6f37fe357ecef8f6529bc405976072628b86c948936a8f5cb5bb2350b43733b2e39b0354d80d4f46aa5.jpg&key=57c0ea5c34d285f72ebb03f87e472c7bc90d6407fcb6c3a4b8a0a3fbfc0aa46f5b4c9e301b8ee136310fa056540830ed.jpg&key=e2be288fe7c1abecd4f750c87b875a430eeff3b837579a7a603d8d7151987dbc3aa5394b4d32b37db8f3cc63b55a2a67.jpg&key=98fde1ccf489a7287489bf7be057875e66544264ac70259f3f4ef4b5c3fa8be16b9c2d27bd3c565309c52db146a43f28.jpg&key=6aa72996c4296f0d2638e431327f81b4de3bac241fb6ff01e769113f1f375b27
 
 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Amazing job and well beyond my capabilities! But I'm thinking forget the staff and concentrate on the roller table.
Try closing the hole with a suitable stake. Careful not to catch the jewel

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Amazing job and well beyond my capabilities! But I'm thinking forget the staff and concentrate on the roller table.

Try closing the hole with a suitable stake. Careful not to catch the jewel

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

Turns out you can close the hole in a balance table using the following:

e08da0802507253cbdfa3983e3813994.jpg

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It worked. Now all i need to do is reduce the pivot size.066b34e7449d8121f48dd58f3efeb696.jpg&key=2e09e2bc75e7013778e9dac2d7ced237c7beea7b6e31b66d6b374ebbc4770f7e06fd1a18ae23b55de00406c58be6b238.jpg&key=3ecc20adea0d2bb606e715d3d0865230a4b21cdacec9e042e6abe25a664672b1ad7a86877432a4f0e940e05c14273413.jpg&key=88f2283ef9e039d019b8bbe99c10d8596351212d1233fb0de3e4646d9d94f784
Remember, i play guitar, thus the long nails:)
 
 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Excellent, is that a reverso staking set and you've used two stakes, the bottom being solid flat. Or is it a traditional stump ?

Sent from my SM-T585 using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Excellent, is that a reverso staking set and you've used two stakes, the bottom being solid flat. Or is it a traditional stump ?

 

Sent from my SM-T585 using Tapatalk

 

You are correct. Flat Stake on bottom and round one on the top. Took a bit of pounding as well.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have achieved what is probably the hardest thing to make in in horology. You could have used lock tight; there are many types such as a thread lock tight, many people who make parts on lathes use it.

When using a punch you have to be very careful not to split the roller.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have achieved what is probably the hardest thing to make in in horology. You could have used lock tight; there are many types such as a thread lock tight, many people who make parts on lathes use it.


When using a punch you have to be very careful not to split the roller.

Good advice. I'm going to cut a second balance staff this week. Finishing the pivots tonight, as my 4 new 0.2 and 0.4 round and flat carbide gravers are coming in tonight and a really need that round shape to finish the cone on the pivot.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have the two sets of videos on using a lathe and I have the bible book on lathes "modern watchmakers lathe and how to use it" as well as practical watch repair and many other books. I have watched and read it all so my brain has the knowledge. Then I practiced for a week (4 hours or so) on brass stock. I then cot a stem using blue steel. And then I tackled the balance staff; taking my time and measuring and fitting as I built the part. I have learned about taking it slow as I over cut the roller table shaft a bit....good lesson. Next staff will be a lot better.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you doing anything different this time?


I am taking more time to taper the shaft so I don’t over cut any part (like the roller table last time). I also got four 0.2 and 0.4 square and round carbide gravers to finish the pivot better. I also started with 1.97 mm blue steel this time, so less cutting to the first diameter.

I am going to cut the staff with the stock attached and only leaving the Roller Table side pivot to complete. So i will complete one pivot before cutting off the part and reattaching to finish the roller side. I also purchased a triangle shaped Arkansas stone to finish the pivots, just prior to burnishing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What you did ~works~ in an <insert zenophobic ethnic slur here> worker kind of way. If you blow a measurement on a staff, only solution is to start again. What you did would work on a clock, but centricity on a watch balance is too critical. By tightening the roller table in a staking set you've mangled the center and I'd be surprised if you got that thing even well poised. Like I said though, it will ~work~ but you've just forfeited precision and introduced positional timing variability. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Tim said:

What you did ~works~ in an <insert zenophobic ethnic slur here> worker kind of way. If you blow a measurement on a staff, only solution is to start again. What you did would work on a clock, but centricity on a watch balance is too critical. By tightening the roller table in a staking set you've mangled the center and I'd be surprised if you got that thing even well poised. Like I said though, it will ~work~ but you've just forfeited precision and introduced positional timing variability. 

It will cause poor time keeping in a clock, so in fact it will not work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My experience with this is mainly pocket watches, in particular, "Waltham" The roller table is a friction fit and once removed for any reason can, on reassembly become loose, especially if removed several times. Reducing the bore size of the roller table is a method of rectification and would have Zero effect on the balance poise.
Also when fitting a new staff; even a factory manufactured one, on these old watches it is quite common to secure the balance wheel to the shaft in the way Jdrichard has done. Though a suitable hollow stump under the wheel arm is advisable, to avoid distortion to the balance wheel itself.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My experience with this is mainly pocket watches, in particular, "Waltham" The roller table is a friction fit and once removed for any reason can, on reassembly become loose, especially if removed several times. Reducing the bore size of the roller table is a method of rectification and would have Zero effect on the balance poise.
Also when fitting a new staff; even a factory manufactured one, on these old watches it is quite common to secure the balance wheel to the shaft in the way Jdrichard has done. Though a suitable hollow stump under the wheel arm is advisable, to avoid distortion to the balance wheel itself.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk



Digg is correct. This is a riveted staff so there is only one way to put it on. It is NOT a friction fit staff. I could have cut another staff, however, the text books do state that you can adjust the hole on the roller table the way i did it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Hold the crown when in winding position, move the click away from the crown wheel, and then while holding the crown let it slowly unwind. I recollect that you must remove the automatic device bridge first, but maybe I'm wrong. You can first try without removing the automatic device bridge.
    • nevenbekriev- You nailed it with your description of me and my reaction when the clock started ticking again. I am a newbie.  I love the sound and idea of mechanical clocks but the idea of owning one and trying to keep them running has never appealed to me. My wife bought this one and an antique German wall clock.  When I looked into having someone repair them for me, the universal response was "it's really expensive to work on them, you should just replace the movement". So, I had nothing to lose, I started researching them and opened them up. The wife is happy because she hears the sound of the clocks again. But I have gone down the "accuracy" rabbit hole. In the vertical position, the balance wheel was not floating. It was sitting on the bottom of the frame. I adjusted the lower spring collet and got it floating. It easily passed the 270 degree 3 to 5 minute oscillation test. It took 8 minutes for the wheel to completely stop moving.  I put it the unit back in the movement and checked the safety pin. It does not touch the safety roller anywhere in +/-270 degrees rotation from neutral position. But the amplitude of the rotation with the spring fully wound is weak based on what you are saying. It rotates +/-90 degrees from the neutral position.  No, I did not take the movement completely apart.  That seemed way outside my skill set at the time. There is a reason I became an electrical engineer and not a mechanical engineer. I am much more comfortable with moving electrons than tiny moving metal parts. Will I do it in the long run? Anything can happen. I don't seem to be able to let it go.
    • Isn't that the same guy who told Zelenskyy to escalate the war with Russia/Putin when they already had a peace deal? 2 years later and we have half a million young Ukranian boys dead. He doesn't seem very clever...
    • Thanks guys.  quick question. For automatic movement, particularly this one. can I power down the main spring by pushing this rachet down?  i've gotten pretty used to SW210 and powering down a manual movement. But so far i've only been waiting for the auto movement to run out of juice before opening the case.     
×
×
  • Create New...