Dial feet repair - All techniques

[Geo]

Have a read of this thread.

 

[RyMoeller]

50 minutes ago, Geo said:

Have a read of this thread.

 

Ah thanks @Geo, that's exactly what I needed!

[Ishima]

I tested JB weld once on an old dial with some bergeon dial feet. i barely had to touch it with the pliers before the foot plucked off. It's confusing, no glues seem to like binding to copper? (yes i did leave it for the proper drying and curing time)

[mistergrumpy]

Can anyone advise?

I got given a cheap ebay Seiko 7009a for my birthday a while back to play with. Not in the best of conditions but I usually stick to pocket watches so this was something to play along with. I've got it running again after changing the balance and cleaning out the lower pivot jewel and am now looking at the dial. It has no dial feet but I can see where they were originally on the back. They're right near the edge and on the dial side, the chapter ring covers the edge so any heat damage would be covered. 

I saw one of Balogh's video's and thought I'd may as well have a try. The dial is brass so I cleaned up around the original foot position with a file. I have some 0.6 mm copper wire and was using electrical flux and solder but I can't get the two to stick together. Can anyone suggest anything? Different flux or solder maybe?

[quantieme]

On 07/10/2017 at 12:07 PM, mistergrumpy said:

Can anyone advise?

I got given a cheap ebay Seiko 7009a for my birthday a while back to play with. Not in the best of conditions but I usually stick to pocket watches so this was something to play along with. I've got it running again after changing the balance and cleaning out the lower pivot jewel and am now looking at the dial. It has no dial feet but I can see where they were originally on the back. They're right near the edge and on the dial side, the chapter ring covers the edge so any heat damage would be covered. 

I saw one of Balogh's video's and thought I'd may as well have a try. The dial is brass so I cleaned up around the original foot position with a file. I have some 0.6 mm copper wire and was using electrical flux and solder but I can't get the two to stick together. Can anyone suggest anything? Different flux or solder maybe?

Hi, I use solder with flux already in it, I have always found that using a separate flux it tends to burn off to quickly. I would also tin the area on the brass and on the copper first as well by putting solder on it and this will aid the flow of the solder when you try to make the join. It could also be your soldering iron is not upto the job as the brass will be acting as a heat sink, again I use a temperature controlled soldering iron that you can turn up to compensate. Hope this helps.

[mistergrumpy]

Good point regards the brass being a heatsink. I never thought about that. I'll have a look into solder with flux in it. Thanks for the advice.

[PJA]

I've found this video for a pocket watch, but it might help with some sort of how to go about it as well. Just in case it's not too late.

[PJA]

Here are few more for you.

Edited October 13, 2017 by PJA

[vinn3]

i reccomend "tining"  for most soldering jobs.   with watch dials ,  pin locating and  overheating the dial are the big problems.   vin

[szbalogh]

On 2017. 10. 13. at 1:50 AM, PJA said:

I've found this video for a pocket watch, but it might help with some sort of how to go about it as well. Just in case it's not too late.

You just found my video again  

On 2017. 10. 13. at 3:31 AM, vinn3 said:

i reccomend "tining"  for most soldering jobs.   with watch dials ,  pin locating and  overheating the dial are the big problems.   vin

Above i am shiwing an easy method how to find the point

[vinn3]

the art of tinning uses a product called "tinners fluid"  at one time,  you could buy it or make it.  vin

[PJA]

7 hours ago, szbalogh said:

You just found my video again  

Above i am shiwing an easy method how to find the point

It seems that you are putting these videos to teach us and I'm pointing them to those who need them, so in a way, we're teamed to help when possible.

[mistergrumpy]

Thanks all for the suggestions. I managed to sort the issue. I used lead free solder and a 30W soldering iron and between the 2 of them it fixed it. I think that maybe because the dial is matt black and painted it was less risky than enamel maybe.

[Nagaki]

hi everyone!
I feel that people are still hesitant about the price and the difficulty of operating the dialer.
Recently I found a good seller with good price, it combines tin paste very easily
I bought his 220v version, I started work pretty easily and quickly than any video I have seen before.
My friend bought another one on ebay for $ 230 which did not include shipping cost and compared to the new one I bought really different electricity,
I bought the current can be twice as strong, solder quickly about 2 seconds
Due to the use of tin paste, the solder is quite beautiful and does not have too much tin.

 

This is the link he sent me 

 

 

Sorry i used gg tránlate.

[measuretwice]

a timely topic revival...i've thinking how i would make a resistance solderer for dial feet for a current project

For you experience guys, would you say the two posts (feet) are always 180 degrees apart, ie a line through them also goes through the centre.....or are they sometimes offset, ie a line through them would be part of a chord?

I've been think that as well as making the solder joint, some sort of position would be nice and how to do so will depending on the answer to the above.  I can imagine the frustration at getting a perfect solder joint only to find the pins don't align with the holes.

Edited December 1, 2017 by measuretwice

[Cougarnaut]

No, the positions can differ, I solved the problem like this: http://dirkfassbender.de/dial-feet-position-gauge.html

 

 

[measuretwice]

19 hours ago, Cougarnaut said:

No, the positions can differ, I solved the problem like this: http://dirkfassbender.de/dial-feet-position-gauge.html

 

 

thanks......random locations complicates things but I suppose its to be expected.  Can you comment on how the your fixture is used.  I see from other posts you are soldering, but am unsure how the set up goes from locating with plastic arms to soldering without the plastic arms

Edited December 2, 2017 by measuretwice

[Massimo]

Hi all,

I have a dial with broken feet, unfortunately.

I read most advice to resolder them with a special welding machine, which I don't have, and could potentially cause a spot on the dial due to overheating.

So I keep searching and I found some advice the use of JB weld, a specific 2 components glue.

Does anybody have experience on this glue?

Thanks a lot in advance

[jdm]

22 minutes ago, Massimo said:

 

Hi all,

I have a dial with broken feet, unfortunately.

I read most advice to resolder them with a special welding machine, which I don't have, and could potentially cause a spot on the dial due to overheating.

So I keep searching and I found some advice the use of JB weld, a specific 2 components glue.

Does anybody have experience on this glue?

Thanks a lot in advance

Are you working on a Seiko 5 or similar? use thin bi-adhesive tape and place some on the movement ring. Or get "dial pads" which in practice are the same thing. Gluing is unlikely to be effective.

[Massimo]

Are you working on a Seiko 5 or similar? use thin bi-adhesive tape and place some on the movement ring. Or get "dial pads" which in practice are the same thing. Gluing is unlikely to be effective.

Thanks Jdm,
Indeed it's a 4r36, seiko 5.
I honestly dislike the idea of the double side tape... As a concept.
I agree it is fast, easy, and (temporarily) effective, without risk of damage.
But in the long term it might move.
Additionally the feet are kept in a plastic hole by interference, without screws so it must be a good bond if I want to reattach them.

[jdm]

3 minutes ago, Massimo said:

Indeed it's a 4r36, seiko 5.
I honestly dislike the idea of the double side tape... As a concept.

I agree it is fast, easy, and (temporarily) effective, without risk of damage.
But in the long term it might move.

Additionally the feet are kept in a plastic hole by interference, without screws so it must be a good bond if I want to reattach them.

It will not move, and the concept of repairing is to get the job done, not being purists on a $70 watch.

Anyway, exactly because the feet are a tight fit in the ring, they will stress the gluing point and break it, just like it broke the original soldering. So you will have to make the glue blob bigger, now it will push on the ring and the dial won't be flush. Then you start reaming out the hole the ring to make space... lot of effort for a patchy job that is the end is worse than adhesive tape. But I guess that not having been there before you'll need to experience first hand... have fun 

[Ishima]

1 or 2 people were swearing by that JB weld for attaching new dial feet at one point on the forum, but when I tried it i found it was only a shade less than completely useless, I don't know if I'm doing something wrong but I've never been able to get any kind of cement to bond properly between the replacement copper dial feet i have and the dial, always snaps off without barely any effort.

I think short of special, costly welding equipment you have to accept that dial dots/strips are your best shot, it's the kind of thing that irks most repairers, we all want a better way of doing it i think, but it usually works out okay, at least if the movement ring is a fairly tight fit in the case. 
 

[transporter]

I have only had one watch returned to me with a dial that had moved after i had used dial spots, apart from that one all dials have stayed in place.

[ro63rto]

Massimo, I found this a while back. I was about to try it but ended up finding a replacement dial.

Some great tips to align them too.

m.yukiwatch.com/articles/article/7390084/160035.htm

[Massimo]

Hi all,
Thanks a lot for the support, indeed I have the original pins but it's clear that the contact surface, using even a good glue, is too small.
Maybe using that feet with a larger head could help, increasing the area of contact.
I'll order both and give it a try.
Fingers crossed...