INCA BLOC HELL

[Andyworks]

AAAAARGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Apologies for the disgruntled start but today has been one of those days. I am servicing my own Seiko diver with the Seiko 7S26 movement and after disassembly and cleaning I was reassembling and and all was going well until I took the Incabloc stones on of the barrel and train bridge. It took an hour and a half to get the first one back in after cleaning and lubing but the second one well lets just say that it is lost. It took me about 3 hours straight trying to get the butterfly spring to go into the slot but after about 15 times of it springing out and flicking the stone with it it pinged off one last time never to be seen again. I am frustrated as after watching Marks videos on his chanel he makes it seem so easy but that's because he has many years under his belt and this is my first time working with the butterfly type.

 

Earlier I had the Incablock spring on the balance of a CWC watch break when I was putting it back together so me and Incablocks this week are not friends.

 

Is here any tips or do's or don'ts anyone can share with this novice to make Incabloc work in the future easier?

 

Many thanks

 

Andy

 

[Chopin]

I know exactly how you feel and I have a very simple method for you. (it won't necessarily make things easier but you won't lose any parts)

I, too, struggle with incabloc parts so what I do is very simple. I actually put the movement on the movement holder into a transparent plastic zip lock bag along with the small components that have to be installed.

Then I simply fiddle around with the springs and the stones by using a thin tweezer (with care in mind so as not to damage anything or puncture the bag) until it works.

There are more complicated incablocs out there than the standard lyre shaped spring and this is what really helped.

One extra "tip". I would put the stone in it's slot, then the spring more or less into it's intended place, and to prevent it from jumping around I use the bag to block it from jumping by simply resting 2-3 of my fingers around the spot where I'm working. Just enough so that the bag will act like a wall that prevents the spring from jumping but not too much so that I would bend it.

I hope you understand what I'm saying... Good luck!

Edited October 3, 2017 by Chopin

[Marc]

@Andyworks, from your description of the stones on the barrel and train bridge it sounds as though you are refering to the Seiko Diafix settings for their cap jewels. These are a 3 pronged horse shoe shaped spring clip and they don't need to be removed. The trick with these is to free the middle tab from the retaining slot and then hinge the clip up with the two nd tabs still located. The jewel can then be removed, cleaned, and replaced without the clip ever leaving the plate.

I probably haven't described this very well but if you google Seiko Diafix, or have a look here;

https://adventuresinamateurwatchfettling.wordpress.com/2016/04/30/hidden-depths-a-seikomatic-r-from-1966/

you will see what I mean.

Incidentally Martin's blog is an excellent read, especially if you have an interest in vintage Seiko.

[rogart63]

Seiko with Inca bloc springs? Never seen that? Seiko shok springs are the easiest ones to work on. Just put one end under the lip and twist. Diafix are tricky. But never seen that on a 7s26 . Is it the new or the old springs? 

The inca bloc  break from time to time . Use a sharp tweezer when open them. Put it back and close it when you clean the movement. Open it again with a oiler. Hardest to work on is the kif springs. Or the russian . 

[anilv]

Hi Marc, on the 7S26/36 the springs for the cap jewels are the new design. This is the rectangular-ish piece of metal similar to the newer balance shock spring but smaller. Google images '7s36 train bridge' for pics.

In terms of design.. the older 3-pronged design is more elegant but having broken some I have to say that the newer design is more robust.. if more difficult for those new to it. Personally I prefer the older design.

Anilv

 

[clockboy]

Fitting shock springs can take you to hell and back, However the more you practice the better you get at it.Tip 1. is to use cling film over the spring which really helps. Tip 2. is to have your workspace completely clear so when it goes into flight you have half a chance of finding it. Tip 3. is to de-magnitse the spring & tweezers/tools being used.

[anilv]

For Inca I typically use a med (blue) oiler to nudge the arms out of the groove and also when replacing.

For some reason I have noticed Tissot watches are more prone to damaging the inca springs as most of the ones I've had to replace come from this manufacturer. Omega on the other hands seem to be fine.. surprising as both companies were linked closely in the 50s and 60s.

Anilv

[Andyworks]

Thanks for all the useful tips and tricks. I will try these for sure. Sounds like I am not the only one that struggles with these. I notice as well there are many different systems and I can not find their names. I just generically refer to them as Incablocs although this is not correct. I am working on a CWC mechanical movement ETA 2750 and on the balance it has a broken spring that looks like this https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=es6%2ft9NH&id=45A43BDCF8672559FE9B0BCADC38815172195B5F&thid=OIP.es6_t9NHOVRRNSes09R7TQEnEs&q=cwc+mechanical+watch&simid=607999746927035395&selectedIndex=106&ajaxhist=0

I need to get a replacement but it is not Inca so don't know the size or name to search for a replacement. Can anyone help please. Seems my shock spring nightmare is set to continue.

Andy

 

 

 

 

[rogart63]

5 minutes ago, Andyworks said:

Thanks for all the useful tips and tricks. I will try these for sure. Sounds like I am not the only one that struggles with these. I notice as well there are many different systems and I can not find their names. I just generically refer to them as Incablocs although this is not correct. I am working on a CWC mechanical movement ETA 2750 and on the balance it has a broken spring that looks like this https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=es6%2ft9NH&id=45A43BDCF8672559FE9B0BCADC38815172195B5F&thid=OIP.es6_t9NHOVRRNSes09R7TQEnEs&q=cwc+mechanical+watch&simid=607999746927035395&selectedIndex=106&ajaxhist=0

I need to get a replacement but it is not Inca so don't know the size or name to search for a replacement. Can anyone help please. Seems my shock spring nightmare is set to continue.

Andy

 

 

 

 

 Been working at those a lot. They are a nightmare and i am afraid i am going to break one every time i open one.  But not sure what type they are? looks like a inca but has a different shape? 

Does it look like this? 

[Andyworks]

Hi Rogart63

 

Yes that is exactly how the spring looks. I ordered the ones for an ETA 2750 as listed on Cousins and parts pages and the ones that arrived were Inca block ones and they were far too large so ordered a smaller standard Inca style and have proved a nightmare to fit so assume the inca and the ones shown above are very different in dimensions and design etc? Do you know what they are called style wise and where I can order replacement springs and the best way to fit them?

 

Andy

[rogart63]

1 hour ago, Andyworks said:

Hi Rogart63

 

Yes that is exactly how the spring looks. I ordered the ones for an ETA 2750 as listed on Cousins and parts pages and the ones that arrived were Inca block ones and they were far too large so ordered a smaller standard Inca style and have proved a nightmare to fit so assume the inca and the ones shown above are very different in dimensions and design etc? Do you know what they are called style wise and where I can order replacement springs and the best way to fit them?

 

Andy

Never seen them in any other movement then the CWC ETA 2750 watches. 

Have a ETA 2750 somewhere here i think. Will take a look. If you can't solve it you can take a complete balance bridge from a Certina 25-... or ETA 2750 . Done that. but it's annoying not to now and it would help a lot. See if i can ask around on some forums. Like MWR maybe? 

[rogart63]

That 2750 i had used normal inca bloc springs of some sort. Did put a question up on MWR forum. As it is a military watch i am sure they now. or i will find out somewhere else. I did a shock spring thread on this forum . But not sure where it is. 

[rogart63]

@Andyworks i think i solved the mystery? It's a lubrifix 66 shock spring . They sit on a few other movement. like the ESA 9157 and ESA 9200 . Take a look at http://www.ranfft.de/uhr/index-e.html

Roland Ranfft help me in the right direction. Thanks Roland Not sure you are here on the forum . 

I can take a look as i have some old ETA 9157 and 58 tomorrow. Maybe they have that spring. 

 

[Andyworks]

That's great Rogart.  That is brilliant detective work. I have tried searching for suppliers and even on Ebay for spares but no luck. It is a mystery. Let me know how you get on with those movements you have.

Andy

[rogart63]

I will. Found a 9157 that has the same kind of springs. Don't want to remove the spring from the balance bridge. But got a complete unit from the mainplate. That i can send to you if you want. I bought a bunch of ETA 9200 from ebay that has the springs. So a few more is coming in. I think you need at least one more. They aren't the easiest to replace. 

[Andyworks]

That's great Rogart. Thank you for looking for those springs on the movements you have.

 

I have been researching and found this article with manufacturers that make shock systems and their names. http://great-british-watch.co.uk/watch-anti-shock-settings/

Andy

[Pen]

I've found the best way to fit a true INCABLOC lyre spring is to hold the tips of the lyre (opposite from the hinge) between two pieces of scotch tape. 
then you can hold the scotch tape between your fingers while manipulating the hinge into the block with your finest tweezers.
an added advantage is that if it springs out, you still have hold of the tape and the spring doesn't shoot off anywhere.
it took me hours of pinging and searching with a magnet and then de-magnetizing and trying again and again before I came up with this method and it worked first time with no problem.
Of course the incabloc base block must be removed from the movement or pushed out enough to get the hinge end of the spring inserted.

[jdm]

45 minutes ago, Pen said:

I've found the best way to fit a true INCABLOC lyre spring is to hold the tips of the lyre (opposite from the hinge) between two pieces of scotch tape. 
then you can hold the scotch tape 

Have you ever heard of Rodico? It can hold and pick up pretty much anything.

[vinn3]

On ‎10‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 1:42 PM, rogart63 said:

Seiko with Inca bloc springs? Never seen that? Seiko shok springs are the easiest ones to work on. Just put one end under the lip and twist. Diafix are tricky. But never seen that on a 7s26 . Is it the new or the old springs? 

The inca bloc  break from time to time . Use a sharp tweezer when open them. Put it back and close it when you clean the movement. Open it again with a oiler. Hardest to work on is the kif springs. Or the russian . 

     have you worked on a Wyler inca  bloc?

[yankeedog]

Magnification, patience and a clear  work surface. Preferably not on a carpeted  floor.