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Wrong numbers on the dial of Corum Admirals Cup...


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Hi everyone, new collector here with a VERY strange problem...

I recently purchased a Corum Admiral's Cup Competition from Jomashop. I thought I understood the risks of grey market purchases until today. Everything looked mint and perfect about the watch until I put it on and went to set the time... when I noticed that the numbers on the dial are incorrect! The watch features arabic numerals marking the minutes, and at the 5 o'clock position, where it should read "25" it instead says "35"! Thus, "35" is written twice, at the 5 o'clock position and the 7 o'clock position.

 7FBOpKzl.jpg.ebde6e7252877c61eecd59adb23d6d3a.jpg

Jomashop has agreed to "fix" the watch, but I'm hoping to get a full refund. In the meantime, I'm extremely confused as to why this has even happened. Why would someone tamper with the numbers on the dial of a watch? I understand this was a mistake, but I don't understand why the dial needed to be touched at all. Does anyone have any insight into what the service history of this watch might look like, and why someone would have needed to mess with the numbers?

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That is bizarre but before you rush into swapping the watch, do some research as some watches with flaws like this have more value as they are very rare.  Sounds crazy, but its true to collectors, especially if the history of the mistake can be unearthed.

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There are different scenarios that might lead to such a mistake on a dial, but we could conjecture for hours and you'd still have a watch with a glaring and obvious error. I am with @anilv, I would suspect its legitimacy. Find a watchmaker that will take the case back off and have a good look at the movement. Then cross whatever bridge  you need to with Jomas shop to get a solution.

J

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22 minutes ago, Chopin said:

I know that there are fakes/replicas of Corum made but would someone like Jomashop sell such a thing ? This is a little weird...

I've seen watches with a wrong numeral on the dial before but not in this league of watches...

I agree. What a fantastic error for a higher end watch. Must be pretty unique (assuming it is legit). Sadly everyone would assume it was a poor replica if something isn't done.

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I'd be surprised that a watch this expensive would have this kind of flaw... I would go straight to Corum and ask them, you might be lucky and have a unique item! Jomashop is not an authorized dealer of the brands they sell, that's why they only give you their own warranty... they also do trade ins, so who knows what kind of history the watch has...

 

Also, why is the date window all black? I hope it's just some weird artifact from the photo...

Edited by frenchie
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41 minutes ago, Watchtime said:

Agree with Anilv....first thought would be a fake....I don't think Corum would allow such a mistake. What is the modelnumber? Never seen one like this before....

It takes more than a error in the dial to say that's a fake. If anything, that just shows that dial production is sub-contracted, and Swiss QC can be sloppy as anybody else. And as mentioned, Jomashop is not in the counterfeiting business. 
I suppose you can't be familiar with the entire Corum product line? You can find it (Ref. A082/03376) with a 2 sec Google search. Here it is on Jomashop: https://www.jomashop.com/corum-watch-a082-03376.html

Edited by jdm
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I spoke with Federico from Federico Talks Watches on the issue. Was very excited to hear from him.

I suspect, based on the conversation, that the watch was refurbished either by Joma or someone else. I do not believe it's a fake, just a poorly refurbished watch. I've sent it back but I'm still waiting to hear from them on the status of my refund...

To answer why I came to a watch repair forum to ask the question: it's a watch repair related question. I wanted to know what someone who does this sort of work thought about the situation, and how my watch could have gotten that way.
 

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5 hours ago, abbtolchester said:

I suspect, based on the conversation, that the watch was refurbished either by Joma or someone else. I do not believe it's a fake, just a poorly refurbished watch.

How it can be "refurbished"? I assume you have bought it as new, and it came with seals and films. Indeed it appears to be a brand new watch with a defective dial which has incorrectly passed QC.

Quote

To answer why I came to a watch repair forum to ask the question: it's a watch repair related question. I wanted to know what someone who does this sort of work thought about the situation, and how my watch could have gotten that way.

Sorry, I don't agree. Repair is when a watch (most often used) is broken or in need of service. But as mentioned above your issue is with a defective new item which needs to be refunded, not repaired. 

Edited by jdm
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A refurbished Corum, barely used, but with a dial containing a numbering error of hour markers. I'd have to turn to my limited experience writing fiction to stage a scenario for how that occurred! I am glad you've set he wheels in motion for  refund. Situations like these can be fun and even informative, but not if it's going to come out of pocket, yes? As for watch repair questions vs. questions on a purchase, its not a big deal. At worst you simply placed your post in the wrong section which I certainly have done many times. Don't mind @jdm, he's well informed and I am sure he's a swell guy, but tends towards pedantry. There is a wealth of knowledge and considerable experience on this site, and so I encourage you to continue to post, and enjoy the discourse.

Regards,

J

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1 hour ago, noirrac1j said:

Don't mind @jdm, he's well informed and I am sure he's a swell guy, but tends towards pedantry.

I've searched for what a swell guy is, and came up with this

3sh_swell_guy_NZ04734_L.jpg.0b295480da1eb589c999efdc42281fcd.jpg

Thanks for the laugh, and be reassured that I'll keep working on my appreciation for exactness, which after all, is what watches are about.

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1 hour ago, jdm said:

I've searched for what a swell guy is, and came up with this

3sh_swell_guy_NZ04734_L.jpg.0b295480da1eb589c999efdc42281fcd.jpg

Thanks for the laugh, and be reassured that I'll keep working on my appreciation for exactness, which after all, is what watches are about.

Hi JDM,

Great movie poster! I do appreciate very much your insistence on exactness, as watch repair is not forgiving of approximations! As for my lingo, swell is certainly and antiquated term, and it  just means someone that's cool to be around with.

Best,

J

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Here's my current theory on how it got this way:

I think it's probably a Frankenwatch of sorts, just all from the same model. A lot of people wonder how it can be refurbished and in such good condition, other than the numbers. It could be that way if the parts were taken from multiple of the same model of watch. The bracelet probably is not from the same watch that originally needed re-dialing or repair. Likewise, the bezel is either polished or spare, the crystal replaced and of course, the dial either new, refurbished, or (gasp) fake. (Though it does have the hand-painted logo, which the fakes often get wrong.)

From my conversation with Federico, his opinion is that Jomashop only sells refurbished watches, despite advertising that their watches are new. It seems that, even though they market themselves a little better, the watches sold by Jomashop are the same sort of watches sold by places like TrueFacet and the RealReal... certainly not new, and maybe not even "real." In fact, there are Admirals Cups being sold on the RealReal right now using the exact same pictures used to sell the ones on Jomashop.

I'm going to be in the area of an authorized Corum dealer later this week and will ask what they think. I'll report back here if I learn anything interesting.

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47 minutes ago, abbtolchester said:

Here's my current theory on how it got this way:

I think it's probably a Frankenwatch of sorts, just all from the same model. A lot of people wonder how it can be refurbished and in such good condition, other than the numbers. It could be that way if the parts were taken from multiple of the same model of watch. The bracelet probably is not from the same watch that originally needed re-dialing or repair. Likewise, the bezel is either polished or spare, the crystal replaced and of course, the dial either new, refurbished, or (gasp) fake. (Though it does have the hand-painted logo, which the fakes often get wrong.)

From my conversation with Federico, his opinion is that Jomashop only sells refurbished watches, despite advertising that their watches are new. It seems that, even though they market themselves a little better, the watches sold by Jomashop are the same sort of watches sold by places like TrueFacet and the RealReal... certainly not new, and maybe not even "real." In fact, there are Admirals Cups being sold on the RealReal right now using the exact same pictures used to sell the ones on Jomashop.

I'm going to be in the area of an authorized Corum dealer later this week and will ask what they think. I'll report back here if I learn anything interesting.

Incredible story. I thought about this, and it simply seems implausible that a high end watch house (They use heavily modified base movements from ETA, et., but high quality COSC) would create these beautiful timepieces, only to let something as blatant as a DIAL NUMBERING error go through the QC line? That dial has to be a fake.  With the prices they're asking for, That Corum dealer will deny such a thing would ever ever happen I am sure.

 

Here is a link to the movement used in the Corum ACC: http://watchbase.com/corum/caliber/co-082

J

Edited by noirrac1j
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8 minutes ago, noirrac1j said:

(They use heavily modified base movements from ETA, et., but high quality COSC)

 

9 minutes ago, noirrac1j said:

Here is a link to the movement used in the Corum ACC: http://watchbase.com/corum/caliber/co-082

J

I think it's not actually a modified ETA in this watch, it's a modified Soprod A10, which is based on a Seiko movement. It's meant to be a "replacement" for ETA 2892's, but as I understand it they actually have a different architecture. The connection to ETA being that Soprod used to make movements for ETA, but I think this movement isn't one of those. Please confirm or deny if you think I got anything wrong, that's my understanding from my research.

For the short time I had the Corum I was impressed with the movement. The second hand seemed to tick even smoother than the ETA 2892 in my Breitling. Could it tick more than 8 times per second? Otherwise could just be age in my ETA. My Breitling is a Wings, made ~2006.

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Yes you are correct. Its a modified Soprod.  The movement is of the highest quality around these days. I think all 28,800 run at 8 ticks per second, but some are smoother than others. As an example, I have an old Omega Seamaster 1020 that the second hand sweeps across as seamless as any watch I've seen. I also have a high beat Jules Jurgensen (ESA 9154)  that doesn't quite match the Omega in smoothness even though both are 28,800, but go about it in totally different ways of course. I also have an Omega Constellation with the 1250 caliber (ESA 9162) and that is an entirely different engine, but it's the smoothest of any watch I know. I haven't seen any Girard Perregaux Hi-Beat or any other 36,000 bph watch movement, though.

J

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