Brute Force Or A Better Way? Balance Wheel Repair

[cliveaus60]

Hi

New to the forum from Melbourne Australia

 

I have a fair collection of digital and automatic watches from reputable brands but one caused me some recent grief.

 

Question was this a practical approach? (your time starts..... now)

 

A fossil ME3019 Automatic Skeleton from Fossil USA (clearance $60 vs still retail $AUS 350!)

It has worked well for a number of years but this year started to gain some time (mins a day) recently it gained 10+ mins a day and I noticed the balance wheel amplitude was much reduced, compared to another fossil auto.  I read up on jewel cleaning and oiling and applied due care under our works microscope with fine tools (lucky I used to run this LAB!) but still saw the wheel running with low rotation.  i noticed under high mag that the pinion of the wheel was firmly up against the capstone and any minute level of pressure stalled the wheel.

 

A deep breath and I basically hoiked the armature of the jewel holder with a fine tool levering off the case so after over flexing the pinion was probably a few thou clear of the stone at rest and minor force did not stall the wheel.  The pinion does flap a bit in the jewel holemaybe 5-10% of its diameter.  Note its not a Breitling and originates from china.

 

It seems to be back in tune with some minor adjustment needed. (PS lost the capstone in the watch at one stage $^#$#&$). fine wire an a dab of oil eventually retrived it.

 

I am not a watch maker by any means but have dealt with precision stuff in the science and tech industry for 25 years. Try aligning a 8 micron fibre optic core together sometime ! 

[anilv]

Hi Clive,

 

Great that this fix worked for you..

 

Generally brute force and watches do not go together.. it usually ends in tears!

 

With this movement, since it has been extensively reworked with a lot of metal removed from the balance cock (what you refer to as armature), it is possible that a hard knock (drop on the floor) may be sufficient to have bent the balance cock but to to put a significant bend in the cock it needs to have moved beyond its current position. example, if you want to bend a paper clip to a certain angle, you need to push it beyond the desired angle so that it springs back where you want it. Like wise, if you want to straighten it, you need to bent it back beyond straight to get it to spring back correctly. In a watch balance, there is simply not enough space for this without either breaking the balance or displacing the shock-protecting jewels.

 

A more common problem with old watches is the oiled looses its properties and hardens/gels.. slowing down the watch. This would be a more likely solution. One hint is how the problem ocurred, .. did it happen gradually (pointing to deterioration of the oil) or did it start to misbehave a a knock/drop (bent cock).

 

Pinion flapping around in the jewel hole is not too good, can you check if the balance has up or down movement? It should have a miniscule amount of up down movement..

 

Skeletonised automatics are not too common, the automatic weight is too heavy and I would imagine that a drop can cause some distortion of the bridge (part where the rotor is fixed).

 

Anil

[cliveaus60]

Quite probably a hard knock

 

I loaned it to my son a while ago (der !).  Agree the balance cock is artistic rather than functional and pretty long (thats what i termed the armature), didnt force the jewel area or balance wheel (not that agricultural).  The pinion movement in the jewel is not really that bad on second look, probably slack tolerance rather than wear.  Being a metallurgist from way back I understand stress and strain so I'm comfortable with the fix.

 

thanks for the review.

[Geo]

A more common problem with old watches is the oiled looses its properties and hardens/gels.. slowing down the watch. This would be a more likely solution. One hint is how the problem ocurred, .. did it happen gradually (pointing to deterioration of the oil) or did it start to misbehave a a knock/drop (bent cock).

Welcome to the forum Clive.

I'm with Anil on this one.

My interest is vintage watches and it's not uncommon for watches to gain time before they eventually grind, or should I say gum to a halt. This is why you should thoroughly clean a watch before lubrication and ensure all pivot holes are clear of congealed oil. If you don't, the fresh oil will eventually cause this hardened oil to soften and expand and grip the pinions causing the watch to stop.

[emso]

Did you try to demagnetize the movement first?

br

emso

p.s: sent from my s****y phone so sorry for typing mistakes :-)

[cliveaus60]

All over red rover. the fat lady has sung

 

Watch ticking nicely again and +/- 5-10 secs per day, temperature and wind (not meterological wind but wind, go figure) dependent.  Happy enough with that outcome.

 

being relatively new and not seeing any old oil (or any oil for that matter) it was no gummed up, Definately took a whack and deflected the flimsy Cock.

 

Thanks for your interest on that matter.  On studying auto watches for a bit now i cant wat to get rich and buy a real one, not the style branded imports from Asia.  they do work OK but dont have the finesse of well made units.  Prodding gears etc under a high mag scope tells me tolerances are adequate but not great. My standards are creeping upwards I fear.

 

Barry Schwartz

“The most important thing is to learn that good enough is almost always good enough; you don't need to find the best. You'll be happier if, once you find something that meets your standards, you stop looking and don't worry about it.”