Seiko NH35 impossible to adjust

[millette.sebasti]

Hi,

 

First time poster here, long time reader and member from various popular watch forums on the web since 2012.

 

I am a simple hobbyist and gathered a few tools among the years and can perform a few simple tasks in watchmaking like movement swaps, hands and dial replacement and other minor stuff but not a complete teardown service (might try my luck with a dead movement at some point!!).

 

I have an issue with an automatic watch powered by a Seiko NH35 movement. The watch is a microbrand dive watch and was made in 2016.

 

I had this for a while and it never ran really well. It barely kept the time within Seiko own specs and I had to readjust it every 3-4 days because it would deviate too much from a reference time. Since I have about 20 watches, I rarely wore it and did not closely looked at it.

 

I invested in a Weishi-1000 timegrapher earlier this summer and tried to make it run better yesterday. The beat error was about 1.0ms and the amplitude was quite low at 190-200 degrees even when fully wound. Timekeeping was not really stable in the graph; the line was not straight and a few "noise" dots were present on the graph. It showed a lot of variation depending on the position.

 

I opened the watch and adjusted the beat error to 0/0.1ms quite easily. The timing however was another story.

 

Every time I managed to adjust the timing in one position to an acceptable rate (like +4-5s/day), it quickly dropped to about -90s/day (and even lower) as soon as I moved it crown up or down. Amplitude dropped steadily to a low 175 degree in these other positions.

 

Also, when "adjusted" to a reasonable rate with the dial up, like +5-10 s/day, the timing was very variable; lines on the graph looked like a rollercoaster, ranging from +5s/day to +20s/day. The lines are not clean either; they are thick and wide most of the time and if I move the watch to another position (like 12 o clock up) and they will become precise, but the timing becomes instantly bad.

 

I'll try to add timegrapher pics later tonight when I come back home.

 

I have the feeling that something is rubbing or snagged in the balance wheel/hairspring area, but I am mostly clueless about this one, never happened before in my limited experience. Might also try to put it on my demagnetize if it helps.

 

Since this movement is so cheap, I already ordered a new replacement for about 30$. I am asking here where to look because I'll try my luck and fix this one when the swap will be done.

 

Thanks for your help!!

 

Seb

 

Envoyé de mon Nexus 5X en utilisant Tapatalk

 

 

[jguitron]

Hi,
 
First time poster here, long time reader and member from various popular watch forums on the web since 2012.
 
I am a simple hobbyist and gathered a few tools among the years and can perform a few simple tasks in watchmaking like movement swaps, hands and dial replacement and other minor stuff but not a complete teardown service (might try my luck with a dead movement at some point!!).
 
I have an issue with an automatic watch powered by a Seiko NH35 movement. The watch is a microbrand dive watch and was made in 2016.
 
I had this for a while and it never ran really well. It barely kept the time within Seiko own specs and I had to readjust it every 3-4 days because it would deviate too much from a reference time. Since I have about 20 watches, I rarely wore it and did not closely looked at it.
 
I invested in a Weishi-1000 timegrapher earlier this summer and tried to make it run better yesterday. The beat error was about 1.0ms and the amplitude was quite low at 190-200 degrees even when fully wound. Timekeeping was not really stable in the graph; the line was not straight and a few "noise" dots were present on the graph. It showed a lot of variation depending on the position.
 
I opened the watch and adjusted the beat error to 0/0.1ms quite easily. The timing however was another story.
 
Every time I managed to adjust the timing in one position to an acceptable rate (like +4-5s/day), it quickly dropped to about -90s/day (and even lower) as soon as I moved it crown up or down. Amplitude dropped steadily to a low 175 degree in these other positions.
 
Also, when "adjusted" to a reasonable rate with the dial up, like +5-10 s/day, the timing was very variable; lines on the graph looked like a rollercoaster, ranging from +5s/day to +20s/day. The lines are not clean either; they are thick and wide most of the time and if I move the watch to another position (like 12 o clock up) and they will become precise, but the timing becomes instantly bad.
 
I'll try to add timegrapher pics later tonight when I come back home.
 
I have the feeling that something is rubbing or snagged in the balance wheel/hairspring area, but I am mostly clueless about this one, never happened before in my limited experience. Might also try to put it on my demagnetize if it helps.
 
Since this movement is so cheap, I already ordered a new replacement for about 30$. I am asking here where to look because I'll try my luck and fix this one when the swap will be done.
 
Thanks for your help!!
 
Seb
 
Envoyé de mon Nexus 5X en utilisant Tapatalk
 
 

Sounds like this one made it passed QC unnoticed. The possibilities are many but I'm thinking that endshakes are off casing all sorts of trouble when changing position. Also oiling or dirt may be involved in the low amp. When BE is pretty much unfixable it indicates the hairspring wasn't placed correctly on the balance wheel and so even with the studs pushed all the way to one side you won't get it adjusted.

This may be the movement for you to dissect and learn more since you have the new one coming.

Good luck!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[clockboy]

3 hours ago, millette.sebasti said:

 

Hi,

 

First time poster here, long time reader and member from various popular watch forums on the web since 2012.

 

I am a simple hobbyist and gathered a few tools among the years and can perform a few simple tasks in watchmaking like movement swaps, hands and dial replacement and other minor stuff but not a complete teardown service (might try my luck with a dead movement at some point!!).

 

I have an issue with an automatic watch powered by a Seiko NH35 movement. The watch is a microbrand dive watch and was made in 2016.

 

I had this for a while and it never ran really well. It barely kept the time within Seiko own specs and I had to readjust it every 3-4 days because it would deviate too much from a reference time. Since I have about 20 watches, I rarely wore it and did not closely looked at it.

 

I invested in a Weishi-1000 timegrapher earlier this summer and tried to make it run better yesterday. The beat error was about 1.0ms and the amplitude was quite low at 190-200 degrees even when fully wound. Timekeeping was not really stable in the graph; the line was not straight and a few "noise" dots were present on the graph. It showed a lot of variation depending on the position.

 

I opened the watch and adjusted the beat error to 0/0.1ms quite easily. The timing however was another story.

 

Every time I managed to adjust the timing in one position to an acceptable rate (like +4-5s/day), it quickly dropped to about -90s/day (and even lower) as soon as I moved it crown up or down. Amplitude dropped steadily to a low 175 degree in these other positions.

 

Also, when "adjusted" to a reasonable rate with the dial up, like +5-10 s/day, the timing was very variable; lines on the graph looked like a rollercoaster, ranging from +5s/day to +20s/day. The lines are not clean either; they are thick and wide most of the time and if I move the watch to another position (like 12 o clock up) and they will become precise, but the timing becomes instantly bad.

 

I'll try to add timegrapher pics later tonight when I come back home.

 

I have the feeling that something is rubbing or snagged in the balance wheel/hairspring area, but I am mostly clueless about this one, never happened before in my limited experience. Might also try to put it on my demagnetize if it helps.

 

Since this movement is so cheap, I already ordered a new replacement for about 30$. I am asking here where to look because I'll try my luck and fix this one when the swap will be done.

 

Thanks for your help!!

 

Seb

 

Envoyé de mon Nexus 5X en utilisant Tapatalk

 

 

 

Was it new or was in pre-owned. Because it gives the symptoms of just needing a service. 

[Chopin]

Yeah, I would first try servicing it (if it's possible) and only afterwards, if it didn't work, try repairing it by having a certain component replaced.

Demagnetized watches run ahead very fast (for example 1 full minute can take just 30-40 seconds to complete) so I don't think that might be it.

Have you actually tried checking the movement with a good loupe in good light to see whether there may be some debris anywhere ?

Edited August 7, 2017 by Chopin

[millette.sebasti]

Was it new or was in pre-owned. Because it gives the symptoms of just needing a service. 

Hi,

I have bought it new. It came in with all the stickers and stuff. I had about a dozen watches with this movement and they usually perform well but looks like this time I got a fluke.

Thanks for your help,

Seb

Envoyé de mon Nexus 5X en utilisant Tapatalk

[millette.sebasti]

Yeah, I would first try servicing it (if it's possible) and only afterwards, if it didn't work, try repairing it by having a certain component replaced.
Demagnetized watches run ahead very fast (for example 1 full minute can take just 30-40 seconds to complete) so I don't think that might be it.
Have you actually tried checking the movement with a good loupe in good light to see whether there may be some debris anywhere ?

I left the watch overnight on my desk and it only gained about 7-8 seconds, so it is not that bad when left undisturbed. Looks like the very strong variations seems to "even out" at the end.

However, you can see the seconds hands running erratically around the dial, uneven and imprecise beats all around.....goes fast, then normal, then almost grinds to a halt, then it starts back running fast.

I'll work on it when the replacement movement is installed in the new watch (got to learn how to switch the day wheel in the meantime, since this one has a black day wheel and the replacement will have a white one!).

Thanks for your help!

Seb

Envoyé de mon Nexus 5X en utilisant Tapatalk

[Chopin]

Swapping the day wheel isn't that hard. You just remove the hands and dial, unscrew a couple of screws (I guess) and take away the plate that probably holds the wheel in place and swap it with the new one.

Should most likely find a walkthrough on the internet for this movement.

As far as the movement itself... I don't know what could it be but these things don't usually break that easily so I'd still say that a service might fix it.

[millette.sebasti]

Swapping the day wheel isn't that hard. You just remove the hands and dial, unscrew a couple of screws (I guess) and take away the plate that probably holds the wheel in place and swap it with the new one.
Should most likely find a walkthrough on the internet for this movement.
As far as the movement itself... I don't know what could it be but these things don't usually break that easily so I'd still say that a service might fix it.

Thanks!

I found a detailed step-by-step procedure for a 7s26, looks pretty similar.

Cheers,

Seb

Envoyé de mon Nexus 5X en utilisant Tapatalk

[millette.sebasti]

Sounds like this one made it passed QC unnoticed. The possibilities are many but I'm thinking that endshakes are off casing all sorts of trouble when changing position. Also oiling or dirt may be involved in the low amp. When BE is pretty much unfixable it indicates the hairspring wasn't placed correctly on the balance wheel and so even with the studs pushed all the way to one side you won't get it adjusted.

This may be the movement for you to dissect and learn more since you have the new one coming.

Good luck!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi,

I can actually get the beat error to 0ms but the rest of the timing is impossible to adjust. It constantly fluctuates like a rollercoaster, ranging from +5 s/day to +30s /day with the dial up. As soon as move the watch in another position, the lines go downhill instantly on the timegrapher.

Thanks!

Seb

Envoyé de mon Nexus 5X en utilisant Tapatalk

[clockboy]

Just a thought.  Are you absolutely sure the hairspring is not touching either it's own coils or rubbing somewhere in different positions. Running fast normally indicates a hairspring issue.

[oldhippy]

This sounds like a h/spring problem. Sometimes it takes more than one run through with the demagnetiser.Run the whole movement through it. Make sure the h/spring is clean and no little hair or speck of dirt is on it. If you haven’t cleaned the h/Spring I would do so.  

[millette.sebasti]

Thanks guys for the useful infos,


I've let it run overnight in my winder and somewhat it only gained +3 seconds compared to my atomic G-Shock...but I know it isn't running right even if it keeps somewhat decent time!!

I'll definitely open it again and check it with a loupe when I have a few minutes.

Thanks again!!

Seb

Envoyé de mon Nexus 5X en utilisant Tapatalk

[jdrichard]

Hi,

I have bought it new. It came in with all the stickers and stuff. I had about a dozen watches with this movement and they usually perform well but looks like this time I got a fluke.

Thanks for your help,

Seb

Envoyé de mon Nexus 5X en utilisant Tapatalk

Where did you buy the new movement from?

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

[jguitron]

Hi,

I can actually get the beat error to 0ms but the rest of the timing is impossible to adjust. It constantly fluctuates like a rollercoaster, ranging from +5 s/day to +30s /day with the dial up. As soon as move the watch in another position, the lines go downhill instantly on the timegrapher.

Thanks!

Seb

Envoyé de mon Nexus 5X en utilisant Tapatalk

OK, if you're able to correct the beat error then I am most suspicious of either a problem with a pivot of one of the wheels or some tooth from one of them as well. Gunk stuck on a wheel could do it too but not sure it would explain the positional variation.

Maybe it was dropped at some point and a pivot or tooth broke?

I hope you can dissect and let us know.

[emoji1303]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[millette.sebasti]

Where did you buy the new movement from?

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

Hi,

I got it from an Asian reseller on ebay

Looks legit with plenty of positive feedback.

Cheers,

Seb

Envoyé de mon Nexus 5X en utilisant Tapatalk

[millette.sebasti]

 

 

OK, if you're able to correct the beat error then I am most suspicious of either a problem with a pivot of one of the wheels or some tooth from one of them as well. Gunk stuck on a wheel could do it too but not sure it would explain the positional variation.

 

Maybe it was dropped at some point and a pivot or tooth broke?

 

I hope you can dissect and let us know.

 

[emoji1303]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi,

 

I checked it with a loupe today.

 

I don't know the exact term, but the end of the hairspring that attaches to the beat correction stud was not properly engaged and it was barely holding.

 

I took a small pointed tool and pressed it back in place with a satisfying "click".

 

I checked on the timegrapher afterwards and the lines are now clean, no more "noise" and it gained a bit of amplitude, maybe up to 215 degrees.

 

However, upon close inspection with a loupe, I can see that the balance wheel seems to be crooked and not straight. I can see a minimal "wobble" and it is probably rubbing somewhere.

 

I'll try my luck and repair it when I have my other movement installed.

 

Thanks,

 

Seb

 

 

 

Envoyé de mon Nexus 5X en utilisant Tapatalk

 

 

 

[millette.sebasti]

Hi,

Just some news for those interested.

The replacement movement is not here yet but since then, I let the watch run down and out of the winder.

I had a week of vacations out of the country and when I came back, I decided to check it out again.

I took the watch from my box and, still fully unwound, I have a swift and firm hit in the palm of my hand, making the rotor spin furiously. I shook it a few times and fully winded it.

Strangely, the amplitude is now about 250 degrees and the watch runs about +3s/day....It has gained about 9 seconds since last Saturday, pretty much perfect for me.

Something was definitely sticking inside and the watch gods removed it for me...

I'll keep the spare movement close untils it starts acting again; I'm not a strong believer of self-healing mechanical entities!

Thanks to all,

Seb

Envoyé de mon Nexus 5X en utilisant Tapatalk

[millette.sebasti]

Hi,

My watch is repaired, the new movement came by mail yesterday. Took 49 days to receive from China, I had almost lost any hope of receiving it!!

Runs nicely now, here is a timegrapher readout of the movement right out of the box. I adjusted it to about +3s/day before installing it in my watch.

I will mess with my DOA movement now and try to fix it;)

Cheers,

Seb

Envoyé de mon Nexus 5X en utilisant Tapatalk