How to remove stuck Cannon Pinion

[Tmuir]

Tonight I've been dismantling a 1920s AS movement for a ladies watch in a silver case.

Other than needing a good clean it doesn't seen in too bad condition, but I can't remove the cannon pinion.

My cannon pinion remove cant shift it, and neither can I using a Pin vice.

What do people do to help free up tight cannon pinions as I'm worried if I just use more force I will damage it?

 

[oldhippy]

As it’s open topped try a little oil and leave or better still penetrating oil. I used to give a good pull using a pair of nippers. However, that way is not for the faint hearted.

[Tmuir]

By penetrating oil do you mean something like the dreaded WD40, or INOX, or is there something more appropriate for watches?

I don't think I'm ready to try the nippers approach yet.

[szbalogh]

Place it on a good support and then tap it gently on the center wheel pinion.

But no need to remove if in good working order. 

[Tmuir]

I've just put a drop of oil on it and will leave it to tomorrow, if it still wont shift I will leave it

[oldhippy]

13 minutes ago, Tmuir said:

By penetrating oil do you mean something like the dreaded WD40, or INOX, or is there something more appropriate for watches?

I don't think I'm ready to try the nippers approach yet.

No never use that muck. I my days you could buy 3 in 1 penetrating oil.

[Mark]

Is the train wheel bridge off? I can't see from the pics.




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[vinn3]

heat and P.  oil !   there are several  answers to that subject IN THIS FORUM.   Or,  read up on it.  vin

[rogart63]

Probably need to come of if it's stuck. The movement won't work with a stuck cannon pinion. Is a watch hand remover to big? Use a nail clipper to hold it with.

[canthus]

Avoid wd40 and other automotive products of similar ilk as they have wax in them!    Use the thinnest oil you have available and warm it a bit before you put it on (better even soak the plate and pinion in a pot), you may have to leave awhile.  Could also use kerosine (parrafin oil) or BBQ lighter fuel as these are very thin and will act like a penetrating oil.  Proprietary penetrating oils will work if they do not contain a wax (for waterproofing) but are more expensive as they normally contain corrosion inhibitors as well.  These inhibitors may also convert any rust and make the matter worse on such a small item!!  It is probably just tight due to old solidified oil or grease and this will need to be softened.

[clockboy]

You will have to be real careful with this too much force could damage the centre wheel pivot which I presume is still attached.  If the oil does not work maybe a couple of fine hand levers might work. 

 

[noirrac1j]

5 hours ago, Tmuir said:

By penetrating oil do you mean something like the dreaded WD40, or INOX, or is there something more appropriate for watches?

I don't think I'm ready to try the nippers approach yet.

Did you try this type of cannon pinion remover ?  

 

[Bill_Lewsey]

Plus gas is a excellent penetrating oil.

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[Tmuir]

23 hours ago, Mark said:

Is the train wheel bridge off? I can't see from the pics.




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The wheel bridge was off in the photo.

For Noirrac1j, yes I have a cannon pinion remover and that couldn't shift it.

After leaving a drop of oil on it for 24 hours it still didn't shift so I refitted the bridge and cleaned it without removing the cannon pinion.

[Watchfixr]

Is the cannon pinion free to turn on the shaft of the center wheel? If not, how do you intend to set the time? If it is free to turn, it should come off. I have used hairspring collet levers or hand removing levers to pull tough ones. If it is tight, anything that tends to pinch it will only make it harder to remove. The suggestion to tap the end of the centerwheel is also a good idea as long as you don't damage it.

[Mark]

The wheel bridge was off in the photo.
For Noirrac1j, yes I have a cannon pinion remover and that couldn't shift it.
After leaving a drop of oil on it for 24 hours it still didn't shift so I refitted the bridge and cleaned it without removing the cannon pinion.

Absolutely your choice but I cannot stress enough (for other people who may read this thread) how bad of an idea this is. A cannon pinion un-lubricated will cause the watch to stop or worse damage the escapement if the hands are set.

For every problem there is a solution and that is the job of the watch repairer to solve.

If the pinion cannot be extracted easily then it must be removed carefully by force. This may be a job for someone who has experience with this but it does need to be done for sure.

Do not leave it like that.


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[noirrac1j]

Yes I echo Mark and watch fixer in the thought that the cannon pinion has to be removed--if it spins, it should be able to be removed.

 

J

[oldhippy]

1 hour ago, Mark said:

 

Absolutely your choice but I cannot stress enough (for other people who may read this thread) how bad of an idea this is. A cannon pinion un-lubricated will cause the watch to stop or worse damage the escapement if the hands are set.

For every problem there is a solution and that is the job of the watch repairer to solve.

If the pinion cannot be extracted easily then it must be removed carefully by force. This may be a job for someone who has experience with this but it does need to be done for sure.

Do not leave it like that.


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I totally agree.

[Michael]

Hi Tmuir, just checking it is not the taper pin type, where no matter how hard you pull it will not come off. You need to tap the centre pin out from the cannon pinion side

 

[Mark]

Hi Tmuir, just checking it is not the taper pin type, where no matter how hard you pull it will not come off. You need to tap the centre pin out from the cannon pinion side
 

No. It's not. That's why I asked if he had removed the train bridge. He answered that he had and so it is not the taper pin style otherwise the bridge would not have come away.


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[Tmuir]

Thanks for the advice, I will try using my leavers on  it.

If that fails I will look for some penetrating oil.

[Tmuir]

Failed, I must not of had even pressure  when levering and broke the centre wheel shaft.

I managed to remove the broken shaft from the cannon pinion on my staking set, lesson learnt I will use my staking set rather than leavers next time I can remove the cannon pinion via regular means.

 

Can anyone identify the calibre of the movement?

I can see the bridges are different, but the placement of everything else is the same as the AS340 and if possible I would like to try and find a new centre wheel for the movement

[wls1971]

I have a calibre 340 10.5L in the parts bin but its much later in the production run than yours and dates from 1936. There seem to be a number of differences but its pretty close

[Tmuir]

I'm about to place an order to cousins for other items and they still have AS340 center wheels in stock in stock for a few pounds, so I will take my chances and order one.

This is why I still only practice on 'cheap' movements so my mistakes aren't too costly.

[noirrac1j]

Certainly not a "failure" because you've added to your experience.

JC