Strange omega running

[Svbiker]

Hi there, I'm hoping someone could give me an insight into what is happening with an old omega, the watch was given to me many years ago by my wife's late grandfather. I believe it's an omega deville. The movement will not work when wound. I believed this to be because it had been overwound in the past. I removed the case back and took the movement out. I then wound it and put gentle pressure on the crown. It started going. As soon as the pressure on the crown is released it stops again. What would cause this? ( apologies if this is a really simple issue, I'm a toolmaker so engineering this small baffles me a little ) thanks [emoji4]

 

 

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[Marc]

Firstly there is no such thing as over wound, there is simply fully wound, which if you try to go beyond you would most likely end up with a snapped stem or damaged teeth on the wheels.

Secondly, the most common cause for the behaviour that you describe is accumulated dirt and dried or gummy oil which is causing more drag in the movement than the main spring can overcome.

You will most likely find that a proper strip down service, clean and relube will solve the problem.

[Svbiker]

Hi there, sorry about my lack of knowledge there, is always heard people complaining about overwinding and never thought much into it. [emoji51]
It's a relief that it's possibly not anything catastrophic. I'd like to get it working again as it has a lot of sentimental value. Thank you. [emoji4]


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[noirrac1j]

Marc is knowledgeable and I agree...the movement needs an overhaul including a new mainspring.

J

[Svbiker]

Thank you [emoji4]


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[zebulon]

if the mainspring was over wound for an extended amount of time it probably took a set to that small space it was jammed to now spring doesnt have enough power to send through a filthy movement. most likely a service and mainspring replacement

[Svbiker]

I was worried something had broken as it'll run for hours with pressure on the crown and it'll keep good time. I'll get it serviced, it's pretty old and most likely like everyone said is filthy. [emoji4]


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[zebulon]

I see your new also tried to load pics and couldn't on website so tried phone like you but can't get tapatalk to do anything I must be to old

[Svbiker]

I tried on the website as well, the app sent me an email to confirm and then it worked. Not sure what was going on. [emoji23]


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[vinn3]

this is an interesting subject.   when the mainspring is wound up tight,  but,  not broken,  you can gently force power to the gear  train to see if the balance is not stuck or broken.  if the balance is not  broken,  you can make it run - after "a proper clean".  vin

[Svbiker]

So I guess that is what is happening when I put a little pressure on the crown? I'm a complete novice and I enjoy learning about how all of this works. [emoji4]


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[RyMoeller]

 

Hi there, sorry about my lack of knowledge there, is always heard people complaining about overwinding and never thought much into it.
It's a relief that it's possibly not anything catastrophic. I'd like to get it working again as it has a lot of sentimental value. Thank you.


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It's interesting that those who understand the inner workings of mechanical watches generally don't accept the term overwound even though owners of mechanical watches quite often use the term to describe a watch which isn't operating properly.  I think it may originate from a bit of guilt felt by the operator- he/she winds the watch fully and it stops working so they conclude that it must have been they that broke the watch.

Of course to be fair to all the mechanical watch owners out there I should point out that half of the problems I find inside watches originated from another watchmaker.  Makes me wonder what the next guy down the line will think of my work!

[Svbiker]

It's interesting that those who understand the inner workings of mechanical watches generally don't accept the term overwound even though owners of mechanical watches quite often use the term to describe a watch which isn't operating properly.  I think it may originate from a bit of guilt felt by the operator- he/she winds the watch fully and it stops working so they conclude that it must have been they that broke the watch. [emoji5]
Of course to be fair to all the mechanical watch owners out there I should point out that half of the problems I find inside watches originated from another watchmaker.  Makes me wonder what the next guy down the line will think of my work!

I've only owned automatic mechanicals as opposed to manual ones so I suppose I thought that if you kept winding them the spring broke or something. A misconception I've had from childhood maybe.


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[RyMoeller]

 

I've only owned automatic mechanicals as opposed to manual ones so I suppose I thought that if you kept winding them the spring broke or something. A misconception I've had from childhood maybe.


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I think it's possible to overwind a mechanical but as you said, the result would be a broken spring.  Your fingertips would probably hurt from turning the crown with excess force too. 

[Svbiker]

I have a box absolutely full of old mechanical movements ( none of which work) my aim is to use those as practice before I go any further with the little omega.[emoji4]


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[StuartBaker104]

Omega 620 movements like this come up quite frequently on ebay and sell for less than most of the parts would cost to buy new individually.

Generally they are found in ladies watches and are quite small and a bit fiddly for the beginner, but you could always graduate up to a spare one of these ad use it asa transplant if all goes wrong.

[Svbiker]

Omega 620 movements like this come up quite frequently on ebay and sell for less than most of the parts would cost to buy new individually.
Generally they are found in ladies watches and are quite small and a bit fiddly for the beginner, but you could always graduate up to a spare one of these ad use it asa transplant if all goes wrong.

I didn't think about looking on eBay, good shout. [emoji1303] I'm not totally sure what the watch is. Whether it's gents or ladies or the model. The number on the inside of the case back suggests it's a deville but that's all I know. [emoji848] I'd love to get it as good as I can but without destroying too much of its character.


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[StuartBaker104]

The number inside the case back will tell you all you need to know and will help you find the correct winding crown.

Case numbers can be used to search the Omega heritage database

[Svbiker]

The number inside the case back will tell you all you need to know and will help you find the correct winding crown.
Case numbers can be used to search the Omega heritage database

Fantastic. I'll have a look at that. Thank you [emoji4]


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[vinn3]

i am the guilty mechanic.   some times you find "more than one trooper has been there before you".  that just increases the mystery and challenges the  repair.

[vinn3]

i have found that auto wind watches are more sept. to failure than  manual wind.  the best system,  in my opinion, is the design that allows manual AND auto wind.  vinn

[Svbiker]

i have found that auto wind watches are more sept. to failure than  manual wind.  the best system,  in my opinion, is the design that allows manual AND auto wind.  vinn

Yes, all my current automatics work this way. [emoji4]


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[Deggsie]

Firstly there is no such thing as over wound, there is simply fully wound, which if you try to go beyond you would most likely end up with a snapped stem or damaged teeth on the wheels.
Secondly, the most common cause for the behaviour that you describe is accumulated dirt and dried or gummy oil which is causing more drag in the movement than the main spring can overcome.
You will most likely find that a proper strip down service, clean and relube will solve the problem.

If the watch was 'overwound' in so far as it was fully wound and then additional torque was applied to the crown, one possible scenario here is that the stem was screwed further into the crown. This effectively shortens the overall length and engagement of the stem into the movement. Hence pressure on the crown (this forcing the stem further into the movement) will allow the watch to run.


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[Marc]

4 hours ago, Deggsy said:

If the watch was 'overwound' in so far as it was fully wound and then additional torque was applied to the crown, one possible scenario here is that the stem was screwed further into the crown. This effectively shortens the overall length and engagement of the stem into the movement. Hence pressure on the crown (this forcing the stem further into the movement) will allow the watch to run.


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First of all if the crow is correctly fitted to the stem then the end of the stem is already hard up against the end of the hole in the crown and therefore cannot screw in any further.

Secondly, what you are suggesting would effectively be the same as pulling the crown out into the setting position which wouldn't normally result in stopping the watch running unless it had a hack feature.

Either way one way to test your hypothesis would be to remove the movement from the case and refit the stem complete with crown and see if anything changes.

[Deggsie]

First of all if the crow is correctly fitted to the stem then the end of the stem is already hard up against the end of the hole in the crown and therefore cannot screw in any further.
Secondly, what you are suggesting would effectively be the same as pulling the crown out into the setting position which wouldn't normally result in stopping the watch running unless it had a hack feature.
Either way one way to test your hypothesis would be to remove the movement from the case and refit the stem complete with crown and see if anything changes.

Yes, I agree the watch would only stop if movement has hacking feature. As an engineer my mind is always looking for the reason why, rather than just apply a standard process and see if it resolves the problem. I'm sure the standard process of servicing and removing all crud will cure this issue but would be better, in my way of thinking, to always resolve a problem by learning the cause first.


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