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Reviving an old Brenray Cleaning Machine

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You only need a brass bushing  hole size 4mm. 8mm. diameter. then you need to drill the hole from 4 mm. to 4,7 or whatever the 2BA is. and then you need 2BA screw to fasten it ! 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4mm-x-8mm-x-8mm-Self-lubricating-Bushing-Sleeve-Brass-Bearings-10PCS-/391717481023?hash=item5b342e6a3f:g:eeYAAOSwLkdY8bq1

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Here is what I would do! I would unplug it all and mount the engine horizontally on a work bench or other stable place. Then I would make a post/hand rest next to the motor shaft. I would then get/buy a turning tool/steel (or that the name is) and turn the motor shaft down to 8 mm. bit by bit ....  

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Here is what I would do! I would unplug it all and mount the engine horizontally on a work bench or other stable place. Then I would make a post/hand rest next to the motor shaft. I would then get/buy a turning tool/steel (or that the name is) and turn the motor shaft down to 8 mm. bit by bit ....  

That's definitely the best option, but it's way beyond my skill set to do, and I'm sure I'd ruin it if I tried!

I'm going to get those brass bushings and use them instead of the plastic one I made.

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Ok, we're all up and running with this, with one exception...

When I turn on the heater, the bulb comes on as it should, but that spring resistor connecting the two points glows up to bright orange in a second or two, and the bulb pops.

The spring seems to be soldered to the two points ok, and I'm not really sure what's wrong here, or how to fix it. This has me at a bit of a dead end with it, as everything else (including my new heating plate) is working as its supposed to. Any and all suggestions are very much appreciated!

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Ok, we're all up and running with this, with one exception...

When I turn on the heater, the bulb comes on as it should, but that spring resistor connecting the two points glows up to bright orange in a second or two, and the bulb pops.

 

what voltage is the bulb? did you change or renew and of the wires?   Do you have so soldering tools so you can rewire ? 

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The only rewiring I've done is the two frayed looking wires on the left of the pic. I've replaced them with 6amp wire - the switch is rated for 3 amps, so I presume the wire has a higher current rating than I need.

The bulb is an identical replacement to the one that was in it - I'll have to double check the numbers as I'm away from the machine at the moment. I evened out the spring top left, so it's only touching at the solder points. It's the one that's heating up. The heating plate connected to the two wires on the left is getting hot - I think as it's supposed to - so that bit seems to be working. The problem (I hope) is limited the bulb fitting, and something to do with the spring, judging by the way it's heating up.

I can solder a bit - not brilliant, but I can usually make a good connection.

IMG_2751.thumb.JPG.ab8dc3a4f9c84fccf364abd6bd6fba60.JPG

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It's an old machine, so just because that bulb was the one that was in it when I bought it, doesn't mean it's the correct one! I should say that it was not working when I got the machine.

Am I correct in assuming that the spring between the bulb terminals should not be glowing up red hot like that?

The heating element is the Elma replacement for 230V cleaning machines. This is the only marking on the plate:

HC5114-2.jpg.525d68fda013bfdca54fad7287697910.jpg

Also, thanks again for your help with this!

Edited by Hammer2017

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The spring (resistor) is in series with the heating element so the full current drawn by the heater is passing through it.  If you replaced the heater with one of a larger wattage rating that the OEM, then more current will be demanded from the mains, thus more current will pass through the resistor than it was designed to endure, and the bulb will burn out because more voltage will be dropped across the resistor due to the lower resistance of the larger heater (assuming a greater wattage rating as mentioned earlier).  Are you positive the replacement heater had the exact same characteristics as the original?

My guess is that the resistor should not be glowing; that just doesn't seem right.  The replacement looks to be a Kapton heater.  Is there a built-in thermistor or some sort of temperature limiting device with this heater? There's no such evidence apparent from the photo above.  Are you certain that this Elma heater is designed to have full 230V applied to it?  If not, you may have to insert a pulse-width modulated (PWM) controller in series with the heater to limit and manage its temperature.

As a stop-gap solution, find out the characteristics of the heater and whether is can endure full 230V applied and, if so, bypass the coiled resistor with a wire short circuit.  This will temporarily protect the resistor. Then, as suggested, put in a 230V neon lamp across the 230V supply rails to the heater to act as an ON-OFF indicator.  Monitor the warmth being emitted by the new heater in these early days to make sure that it only warms the fluid to manufacturer specifications for cleaning (around 60 - 80 degrees max IIRC).  If the heater goes full blast and overheats the fluid, then it's time to search for a PWM temperature controller to manage the temperature.  These devices are readily available on Ebay.

Edited by robmack

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I've no idea what the old heating plate was rated for - it was a rusted mess with no markings. I'm beginning to think I'm way out of my depth on this, and that it might be time to take it to a specialist for rewiring... I just don't have a clue about electrics, and it's proving to need more work than I had thought.

For the time being I might forego the heating plate. I've been told that modern cleaning fluids don't need heat to aid with drying nearly so much as the old one, so hopefully spin drying will be enough!

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 I just don't have a clue about electrics, and it's proving to need more work than I had thought.

 

Dont give up, you dont need that...  if you can do that two wires then you can do the rest...

find a 230V bulb and a 60 degree klixon-thermostat.  there is a lot of them out there... 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10mm-UNIVERSAL-INDICATOR-RED-LIGHT-NEON-ELECTRIC-BULB-PUSH-INN-SNAP-FIT-230V-/322441068293?hash=item4b12fc3f05:g:aVcAAOSwuxFYuc7o

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KSD301-NC-60-degree-10A-Thermostat-Temperature-Switch-Bimetal-Disc-KLIXON-/141462899540?hash=item20efd88b54:g:hx0AAOSwhQhY3prT

 

follow this simple but useful diagram and it will work!!!

You must fasten the klixon to the heating chamber you might need a 40 degree depending on where you can place it...

 

diagram.png

Edited by maclerche

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Thanks for that! I had thought that if the heater had a higher power draw, it would just under perform with what the supply could provide, not that it would pull more through! I'll take another look at it this weekend with that diagram in mind. I really appreciate your help on it - hopefully that will get it all up and working!

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Once again, thank you so much for all the input. I have absolutely no doubt that I wouldn't be able to complete this restoration without the help I've gotten here - I really appreciate it.

I have a couple of quick questions regarding the new circuit diagram:

- Am I correct that I need to cut the spring resistor out of the circuit completely?

-Can I use a different type of bulb to the one you've linked? eg an E10 Indicator Light, Clear, 230 V, 13 mA, 1000h. This will fit in the bulb housing that's presently there. I'm not sure the neon one you've suggested will, so I'd have to work out how to house that one.

-Does the thermostat need to be mounted externally so it can be adjusted, or does it go inside, and cut off the power to the heating plate once it hits 60 degrees?

Thanks again!

 

Edited by Hammer2017

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Once again, thank you so much for all the input. I have absolutely no doubt that I wouldn't be able to complete this restoration without the help I've gotten here - I really appreciate it.

I have a couple of quick questions regarding the new circuit diagram:

- Am I correct that I need to cut the spring resistor out of the circuit completely?

-Can I use a different type of bulb to the one you've linked? eg an E10 Indicator Light, Clear, 230 V, 13 mA, 1000h. This will fit in the bulb housing that's presently there. I'm not sure the neon one you've suggested will, so I'd have to work out how to house that one.

-Does the thermostat need to be mounted externally so it can be adjusted, or does it go inside, and cut off the power to the heating plate once it hits 60 degrees?

Thanks again!

 

1. Yes, get the spring off.. cut or soldering

2.  E10 230V 13mA is great!!

3. you can not just the klixon, just mount it somehow on the side of the heat chamber where it can be hidden! Hope this pic make sense ....

 

klixon.png

Edited by maclerche

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A slightly better illustration :-)
 
I would place the thermostat on the side of the heat/drying chamber. As high as possible. First I would drill a hole, mount a 10mm. copper screw through the wall of the Chamber. It will direct the heat quickly to the thermostat. The thermostat would I attach with screws in the Chamber wall. Either with self-tapping or machine screws. I hope the idea makes sense ... see drawing below!
 
 

klixonmount.png

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I'm questioning the need for the thermostat.  I watched Mark's video on watch cleaning and realized that the heating chamber is creating just warm air that dries the cleaned parts of watch rinse.  So, you'd want the heater to go full on to create a very hot environment to evaporate the liquid quickly.  The 60*C thermostat would hinder this and the parts might not dry properly.  Even the Elma Elite schematic above does not have a thermostat in the heater circuit, just the neon bulb paralleling the heater element.

Edited by robmack

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Although you want the parts to dry quickly you still need to be careful regarding temperature.

The melting point of shellac can be as low as 75C and it will start to soften before that. If you don't want to risk the shellac that holds the impulse pin and the pallet stones in place then 60C is a sensible maximum temperature.

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If you look at the the Elma Super elite. Then the old ones have a heating element at 90W

The newer ones has a heating element at 200w and therefore i think the need for thermostat is there.

Elma Junior has a thermostat  as well...    I see no need for heating the cleaning liqued ... but here ti will do heat a little... 

Skærmbillede 2017-05-29 kl. 17.16.20.png

Skærmbillede 2017-05-29 kl. 17.19.32.png

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