Servicing marks in watches

[transporter]

Guys apologies for an early question, now all accredited watchsmiths when servicing a watch will/would leave a series of numbers scratched into the caseback when said watch was serviced.

I'm sure this question has been asked in the past, but what do they mean? Can you tell what year the service took place etc or is it just an individual number given to the watchsmith on completion of training?

I'm asking this now as I have this watch on my bench that the customer has sworn blind it's never been serviced, but I beg to differ as it was pretty mucky inside including fluff and an eyelash!!!! And the inner bezel had been glued to the dial Aaaarrrgghhhh, and in turn whilst the previous person had had the movement out they forced it back into the case and in turn caught the lug that locates the inner bezel on the case and bent the dial!!  Anyway also on the caseback are to numbers left by watchsmiths who have previously worked on the watch.

So I was wondering if you could get any information from these numbers. Don't worry I'm not about to snitch to the BHI about shoddy workmanship, after all we all have our off days, im just curious that's all, especially as I can tell my customer that either he was had, 30 odd years ago or he's not telling me everything and im putting right some dubious work carried out by an ape.

[clockboy]

I have seen these repairers marks many times normally on vintage watches. I personally don,t do this when servicing a watch but I think it was a tradition just to give the next watchmaker/repairer an indication of when it was last serviced. 

[oldhippy]

Most watch repairs/makers have their own code when it comes to marking the case I doubt very much that it is straight forward. Some are easy, others are like cracking the enigma code.  

[JohnR725]

Case marks are interesting for the most part everyone has their own system. Including some companies were using felt pens so as to not to leave a permanent mark. But the last I heard they were concerned about the fumes from the permanent marking so I have no idea what they're doing now.

So what did the secret codes mean? One shop I knew of the numbers referred to the logbook. In other words it give the page number and I think the line number. Others secret codes for what type are repair was done. Sometimes it appears to be dates With the codes. If it's been serviced a number of times from the same shop sometimes you guess the date part. Then for the most part it is some sort of secret mystery. Then some shops And/or watchmakers for variety reasons do absolutely nothing at all. But as far as I know I don't think any of the factories scratch up the inside of the watches unless perhaps they serviced it.

Of course there are exceptions for instance AWCI A long time ago came up with a case marking system. It would identify who did the repair and if you ask nicely they would tell you who's case market is. The link below comments on the system.

http://www.awci.com/for-consumers/what-is-a-case-mark/

 

[WileyDave]

I thought the primary reason was warranty, so some kind of "date" would be present, (e.g. last two digits) of code = year???? sounds logical, plus initials of who preformed service?

 

[rogart63]

Here in Sweden i have heard that each watchmaker has number or a approval code from the school. Or an apprentice letter with a number?

That number is specific to each watchmaker. And if you have the book or the data you can see which watchmaker did your watch. 

At least that is for old watches? Don't now how they do this days? 

[anilv]

I would have thought that watchmakers would have a code like "this is a difficult customer' or 'cash only' to warn future watchmakers!

But these issues would only turn up when the watch has been cased up..

Anilv

[martyn]

In a former life I was  a domestic appliance engineer, I have started making a code list loosely  based on the I.R.I.S. system , If anyone would like a copy  just ask , and feel free to modify it but send a copy back  so we can keep the main copy fresh

Would this be a good way to go ? or can somebody help with the older system

I await ALL answers with anticipation

[Pullbuoy]

I agree with your observations.  Herewith a recent pic from a pal's watch who wanted an opinion as to whether their watch was a fake.  I popped the case open (the caseback had no external markings) and this was the view.

The scratched mark has a 1/94 and a 'P' visible, so I guess its been seen by someone who knows what they're doing, who's name invovled a P.  Plus there's the code number (15631?) in addition to the serial number and maker's mark.  A swiss watch sold in the UK? Is there a BHI register, or is the number more likely to refer to an Omega-authorised source?

Your expert views appreciated.

Cheers,

Malc

[transporter]

Ok guys since starting this post I have with the blessing and say so from my FBHI mentor started taking on paid work and started my own clock /pocket watch repair business, it runs along side my actual day job.

i now mark my jobs with the initials of my company name the job number and the last two digits of the year. 
So that’s how I mark my jobs, so really I’ve just answered my initial question

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, transporter said:

i now mark my jobs with the initials of my company name the job number and the last two digits of the year. 
So that’s how I mark my jobs, so really I’ve just answered my initial question

out of curiosity are you marching to traditional watchmaking way by scratching into the case back or perhaps on the clock movement plates? Or are you doing the newer method  of using an indelible felt pen.

The reason I ask is collectors  who have pristine perfect mint whatever generally frowned upon people scratching up their watch back even though they typically would never know the.. Then apparently Rolex now objects to the felt pen  because they think it releases fumes bad for the inside of the watch's I don't actually know how Rolex marks their watches now.

 

 

[transporter]

On 9/3/2022 at 12:03 AM, JohnR725 said:

out of curiosity are you marching to traditional watchmaking way by scratching into the case back or perhaps on the clock movement plates? Or are you doing the newer method  of using an indelible felt pen.

The reason I ask is collectors  who have pristine perfect mint whatever generally frowned upon people scratching up their watch back even though they typically would never know the.. Then apparently Rolex now objects to the felt pen  because they think it releases fumes bad for the inside of the watch's I don't actually know how Rolex marks their watches now.

 

 

Hi, I actually use a loupe and a sharpened screwdriver edge to neatly and very small scratch into the inner face of a plate. As with all old marks and marks I’ve come across you really can’t see it unless looking for it or it catches the light. 
As for Rolex etc having their day that’s up to them what they dictate to their service centres. That’s one of the reasons I turned towards clocks, I pretty self sufficient for spares and repairing/making parts from scratch, no swatch group holding me to ransom

[oldhippy]

The best way is to keep a record of your repairs in a book or these days use a database, you can enter all what you have had to do too a watch. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, transporter said:

Hi, I actually use a loupe and a sharpened screwdriver edge to neatly and very small scratch into the inner face of a plate. As with all old marks and marks I’ve come across you really can’t see it unless looking for it or it catches the light. 
As for Rolex etc having their day that’s up to them what they dictate to their service centres. That’s one of the reasons I turned towards clocks, I pretty self sufficient for spares and repairing/making parts from scratch, no swatch group holding me to ransom

Good for you transporter

[JohnR725]

7 hours ago, oldhippy said:

The best way is to keep a record of your repairs in a book or these days use a database, you can enter all what you have had to do too a watch.

where I work now there is no marking at all in watches. this all entered into the computer so we know exactly what happened to the watch. Always handy when a customer can't remember if they got a crystal were some tiny repair versus ar complete overhaul. 

 

[oldhippy]

That's the way everything can be kept on the computer. Don't forget to keep a back up.