AS1713, minute and hour hands not moving

[alexndr]

I have been struggling with a AS 1713 for quite some while (an automatic version of calibre AS 1900 that Mark has done an excellent video service guide for). I've already got some good input here on how to clean the caped jewels for the upper bridge of the automatic device. Thanks for that.

Next problem; Second hand is ticking nicely and timegrapher is giving an acceptable reading, but minute and hour hands are not moving. A classical lose canon pinion one might think. This calibre is a little different though. The canon pinion is not friction fitted, instead there's a friction pinion fitted to the third wheel as explained roughly 5:07 into Marks video: 

Any ideas on how to tackle this? Should I tighten the friction pinion is the same way as I would do with the canon pinion? Or is the springed minute wheel responsible for giving the pinion some extra friction on the pivot of the third wheel? 

 

[Cad101]

This comes up alot with as1900 series the offset cannon pinion will indeed need tightening this can be done with a broach or needle the same or slightly smaller than the hole insert broach in hole and gently apply pressure with a pair of nail clippers to tighten it slightly don't go mad or you will over tighten if you look under strong magnification you might see marks where it was originally tightened The hard part is removing it from the shaft of the wheel without breaking it if I remember correctly Mark removes it and oils it in part 2 of the video I don't think he tightens it tho.

 

[alexndr]

1 hour ago, Cad101 said:

This comes up alot with as1900 series the offset cannon pinion will indeed need tightening this can be done with a broach or needle the same or slightly smaller than the hole insert broach in hole and gently apply pressure with a pair of nail clippers to tighten it slightly don't go mad or you will over tighten if you look under strong magnification you might see marks where it was originally tightened The hard part is removing it from the shaft of the wheel without breaking it if I remember correctly Mark removes it and oils it in part 2 of the video I don't think he tightens it tho.

 

So I need to take it apart? Hm, I skipped this step during the service cause I lack the tools required. I will try to improvise ..

A follow up question. This will require me to disassemble a lot the movement that I have already oiled. As professionals, would you recommend start everything over? Clean pivot holes again etc. I guess oils in jewel holes will be misplaced if I remove the bridges for instance .. 

 

Edited April 8, 2017 by alexndr

[rogart63]

If i should count the times i have to take a movement apart again. Many times it would be. I have a cup of isopropanol  that i dip the parts in. And do it all over again. That is what they called learn by doing  . I don't think there is a option. That would be  to get a new part instead of tighten the old one.  

Have a lot of this cannon pinions with the wheel for AS1902. But it doesn't say on the box that AS1713 would work? Why is that? Almost the same movement except  for the frequency? 

Edited April 8, 2017 by rogart63

[ftwizard]

According to the Borel site, they are interchangeable.

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=V]ZDXFWJ

[rogart63]

Wrong of me there. I did look on an AS1784 or something like that . Found a box with a new wheel and a cannon pinion now. Says AS1902 on the box. So they are the same. 

[alexndr]

To follow up ..

At first I had a hard time disassembling the wheel from the shaft. I have no Platax (yet). However I have the simple Bergeron 2810 roller remover and supprisingly it did the job. With just a small pinch at the right place the wheel popped off.

Next problem was to tighten it. The tools I have for tightening ordinary cannon pinions were to blunt. 

Finally I used the 2810 for tightening as well with a small broach inserted in the hole. Unfortunately I pinched it too hard and when the wheel was reinstalled on the shaft it wouldn't budge at all.

I bought a brand new frinction pinion instead. 5£ well spent.