Question

Hi

Assembling an ETA 2451, for the first time when attaching the cannon pinion I broke the centre wheel jewel. I was using a holder with centre support, but I broke it anyway - I think I may have used too much pressure. I have a number of questions, please feel free to answer any or all of them :)

1. Does anybody know the size of this jewel, or have one they can measure? Alternatively I do have an ETA 2571, will this be the same size?

2. Apart from Cousins, where is a good place to order these jewels? I don't want to pay the £50 or so they charge.

3. How much pressure is needed to attach the cannon pinion? I am used to firm pressure, but this one seemed to need a lot.

4. What is the best/most secure method to attach the cannon pinion? I have just been using tweezers. I did read somewhere that it was safer to hold the cannon pinion in a pin vice and push on - anybody do this?

Any advice appreciated. Thanks 

Stephen

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If there is no centre seconds then I would just sit it on and push down with the back of my tweezers, make sure you oil/grease it first and  put the minute wheel on after then you won't damage any teeth.

One firm push should do it, are you sure it's not too slack and you are trying to push it on too far?

Edited by Tiktok

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Isn't the 2451 like a 2824-2 ? It's a driving wheel with a cannon pinion in? 

If so there should be no problem? The cannon pinion with driving wheel should come as one unit? And would just drop into place? No force should be needed? 

ETA2824-242-H2.jpg.b9a8f919b1557f614eb838bd236ab969.jpg

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15 minutes ago, rogart63 said:

Isn't the 2451 like a 2824-2 ? It's a driving wheel with a cannon pinion in? 

If so there should be no problem? The cannon pinion with driving wheel should come as one unit? And would just drop into place? No force should be needed? 

ETA2824-242-H2.jpg.b9a8f919b1557f614eb838bd236ab969.jpg

That is what the parts list says, but not what I have which is cannon pinion only.

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8 minutes ago, chadders1966 said:

That is what the parts list says, but not what I have which is cannon pinion only.

Are you sure the pinion part hasn't just come away from the wheel and it should look like the part in the photo?

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No, there is no driving wheel. Someone in the past must have replaced it with the wrong part - no wonder I had such trouble fitting it as it shouldn't be there! I will need to find the correct part. I am still faced with the problem of replacing the jewel though.

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30 minutes ago, chadders1966 said:

No, there is no driving wheel. Someone in the past must have replaced it with the wrong part - no wonder I had such trouble fitting it as it shouldn't be there! I will need to find the correct part. I am still faced with the problem of replacing the jewel though.

Sent you a message,

some pictures would be good, just had a look on google and it does look a very close family member to a 2824, I wonder if any wheels or parts would interchange with it. How many beats per hour is the 2451 calibre?

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29 minutes ago, Tiktok said:

Sent you a message,

some pictures would be good, just had a look on google and it does look a very close family member to a 2824, I wonder if any wheels or parts would interchange with it. How many beats per hour is the 2451 calibre?

Don't think the parts from the 2824-2 would work in a 2451?  The wheel doesn't look the same? Found this on  Ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-3-ETA-cal-2451-2452-2453-watch-movements-for-parts-or-repair-/361869659633?hash=item54411ccdf1:g:f7kAAOSwjDZYa6lo

Maybe that would be a good deal? instead of replacing the jewels? There is even an driving wheel with cannon pinion on one of them. 

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Yes, I saw those. I think they would be a good deal for spares if I could press the jewels out. My movement is gold/copper coloured so I couldn't use the bridges directly.

The 2451 is an 18000 I think.

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1 hour ago, rogart63 said:

Don't think the parts from the 2824-2 would work in a 2451?  The wheel doesn't look the same? Found this on  Ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-3-ETA-cal-2451-2452-2453-watch-movements-for-parts-or-repair-/361869659633?hash=item54411ccdf1:g:f7kAAOSwjDZYa6lo

Maybe that would be a good deal? instead of replacing the jewels? There is even an driving wheel with cannon pinion on one of them. 

I was thinking more of the jewel possibly being the same size, I have an old bridge off a 2824 here I could send him if the jewel is the same size.

 

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There are 5 different heights for the cannon pinion. Jules Borel lists the "where used" if you click on the appropriate part.

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=ETA_2451

I've no idea why parts lists don't show jewels... you just have to measure up and buy standard parts. If you need them individually Then obsoletewatchandclockparts is often cheaper.

 

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10 minutes ago, chadders1966 said:

Yes, I saw those. I think they would be a good deal for spares if I could press the jewels out. My movement is gold/copper coloured so I couldn't use the bridges directly.

The 2451 is an 18000 I think.

If it's 18000 then the wheels defenatly won't fit from a 2824. Is there any way you could measure the pivot that goes into the cracked jewel and that's one measurement we could compare with jewel size.

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I have posted the bridge off the 2452 and a 2824 with the hope you might be able to rob a jewel out of one of them that will fit.

I have also put the friction wheel in from the 2452, it doesn't say it's comparable on that PDF sheet and might be a different train count but worth a compare whilst I was sending other bits, if it fits but it's a different height I have put the centre wheel and hour wheel in to match so you might get away with just altering the height of the hands if not too far off, but again check to see if wheels are the same.

Just post back what you don't use when you are ready, no rush.

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