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15 hours ago, yankeedog said:

Thanks guys...I wouldn't buy anything that didn't show the movement.I would think of them more as raw material..a case.a dial ,hands.that sort of thing. The cases do look like a decent grade of stainless steel .

Never buy a watch from the bay unless the movement is shown--this is a GOLDEN RULE! The only time I've broken this rule have been the few times that the watch dial, hands, case and everything else look soooo good, that it would still be worth even it if it contained a rusted bottle cap inside.

J

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5 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

I don,t have a valid answer. I think some of these massey fergusons that tic here can guzzle either one.

Ha ha ha. Its like the "Regular vs Premium" gasoline discussion. They will all work in the engine , but what happens in the long run? 

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2 minutes ago, noirrac1j said:

Ha ha ha. Its like the "Regular vs Premium" gasoline discussion. They will all work in the engine , but what happens in the long run? 

God knows, I assemble most of what goes in my collection without oil, beleiving If not in use a watch keeps better oilless.

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0w20 synthetic motor oil. I could by expensive watch oil..if I bought expensive watches.viscosity is similar to   moebius 9010. It's synthetic..so it doesn't break down.it doesn't turn to sludge.It lubricates over a wide range of temperature.as for WD 40.it's not a lubricant.it's primary use is as a penetrating oil and for water displacement.I have been told it's fish oil.I believe it.Because I have never seen a rusty fish.

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Really?!? Wow that price differential is extreme to say the least.  

Mobil 1 full synthetic, 5 quarts on sale for $22.88,  works out to $.004 per mL

Moebius 9010 synt-a-lube  is 27.95 for 2mL, which works out to $13.97 per mL

:phone:

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1 hour ago, Nucejoe said:

Over here we get watch oil said to be made in India, some say its fake pakistani passed as Indian make. 

Ironically it may in fact be Chinese, or even... given that Iran is a rather well known producer of crude oil, home grown.

Which reminds me somewhat of the irony of living and working in Scotland, which is also a major oil producing country, but where I pay more for my Diesel than they do in London. The commonly spouted excuse being "transportation and manufacturing costs". I can see the flares from the Grangemouth petrochemical plant lighting up the night sky from here. I somehow doubt if the same is true in the home counties of England.

However back to the oil.

I suspect SAE 75W-140 gear oil would be close to Moebius 9010, in terms of both viscosity and longevity, so assuming you have no other option, gear oil is almost certainly 100% better than nothing, and about 99.99% better than WD40.

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Today's watch, fresh from the healing bench is a Citizen 21 Jewel "Parawater" (so most probably from 1971). It arrived looking a little miserable, and struggling to tick.

AsPurchased.png.c7d1d1ca9b5d4f4c5d7a87290d4cf9ee.png
I took a quick look at it shortly after it arrived, and got it going, but I wasn't 100% happy with it, so it received a little more TLC, and is going considerably better. I might be able to get the beat error down a fraction more, but since I decided to quit while I was ahead.

The date changer is also working correctly now too.

1374008544_Screenshotat2019-05-0122-52-36.png.c80b93cba37993a1cd33dce2843e0fbb.png

Now that it is running reasonably well, and has survived a day on my wrist without complaining, I'm might see if I can bring back a bit more of the original shine.

RIMG0950.JPG

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I have tried gear oil.It's a bit thick and the movements tend to run and stop.I have tried automatic transmission fluid.It is a bit thin and tends to find its way to the hairspring making the watch run fast.0w20 seems to be the sweet spot. I am not saying it is better than moebius. But you have to admit that besides being masters of horology the Swiss are also masters of hype. They have got us paying how much for a little vial of oil? Now don't go using it on your Rolex...but if you have an old  vostok or hmt laying about.give it a try...

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2 hours ago, yankeedog said:

I have tried gear oil.It's a bit thick and the movements tend to run and stop.I have tried automatic transmission fluid.It is a bit thin and tends to find its way to the hairspring making the watch run fast.0w20 seems to be the sweet spot. I am not saying it is better than moebius. But you have to admit that besides being masters of horology the Swiss are also masters of hype. They have got us paying how much for a little vial of oil? Now don't go using it on your Rolex...but if you have an old  vostok or hmt laying about.give it a try...

I'm with you there. Used engine oil works on old alarm clocks.. but I wouldn't recommend it.

But yes, there needs to be some pretty sophisticated technology going on in those Swiss oils to justify the price, and I'm not sure that there actually is. Admittedly you don't need much, but none the less per ml it is pretty pricey. I'm not saying it is snakeoil, but...

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1 hour ago, yankeedog said:

AS 1187 movement generic Hong Kong case.Dial decal printed on IJP. Franken for sure,but a fun experiment in spare parts.

IMAG0645.jpg

Looks very convincing. How sharp did the inkjet decal turn out? Where did you borrow the design from? It looks pretty good from here.

Edited by AndyHull
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The IJP decal wasn't particularly sharp.but it is legible. The design is US military a17. Used during the Vietnam era on military issue watches.it was scoured off the internet and modified a little with the Microsoft paint program

Edited by yankeedog
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Just for fun, I stuck the Roxedo on the time grapher.

90116527_Screenshotat2019-05-0314-50-56.png.4cfc1bfec0b0d9e7a882fcb36af4c36a.png

Bear in mind, this is a pin lever, which I replaced the balance and fork in,  back in November with one from a scrap movement. It also was cleaned and adjusted. There is no simple way to adjust the beat error, so back then, I just left it as it was, and set the rate, rather than risk fiddling with the hairspring.

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This is how it looked when it arrived with the broken fork and dodgy balance.

Today all I did was  grab it wind it and stuck it on my wrist.


It is far from perfect, and certainly wouldn't win any prizes but for those doubters that say pin levers are rubbish, unreliable and don't last, this thing has been clacking away like an old alarm clock, probably since the 1970s or perhaps even the late 1960s, judging by the style, and is still keeping reasonable time.

I'm pretty happy with those numbers. 

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There is really nothing wrong with pin levers.They were built to satisfy a market segment. I think they suffer more from shoddy cases than anything else.Generally they were poorly sealed and allowed both water and dirt to enter. Which is a bad recipe for any watch regardless of construction..Lack of shock proofing was also a problem.

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On 5/3/2019 at 5:47 PM, AndyHull said:

An old favorite, the Roxedo EB 8800 pin lever is back on my wrist today.

RIMG0964.thumb.JPG.6c82f3a618ba6359e6931025637fb3fb.JPG

I like the simple uncluttered elegance of the design of this piece. It make a very readable, robust and comfortable daily wearer. 

My favourate dial, dress watch and silver color. Enjoy it andy, most popular color too.

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    • this is something I've never quite understood about the some of the Swiss companies. In 1957 Omega was using 9010 for the keyless parts with epilam. there's been a slow migration towards using heavier lubrication's but still typically oils and epilam to keep them in place. When it seems like 9504 works so much better.  
    • OK, welcome in the world of alarm clocks... I guess the 4th wheel is dished because it is from another movement. If it was not dishet, then it would not mesh with the pinion of the escape wheel, am I right? The marks of wear on the 4th wheel pinion doesn't corespond to the 3th wheel table position, at list this is what i see on the picts. Calculating the rate is easy - there is a formula - BR = T2 x T3 x T4 x T5 x 2 /(P3 x P4 x P5) where T2 - T5 are the counts of the teeth of the wheels tables, and P3 - P5 are the counts of the pinion leaves. Vibrating the balance is easy - grasp for the hairspring where it should stay in the regulator with tweasers, let the balance hang on the hairspring while the downside staff tip rests on glass surface. Then make the balance oscillate and use timer to measure the time for let say 50 oscillations, or count the oscillations for let say 30 seconds. You must do the free oscillations test to check the balance staff tips and the cone cup bearings for wear. This kind of staffs wear and need resharpening to restore the normal function of the balance.
    • Glue a nut to the barrel lid, insert a bolt, pull, disolve the glue.  Maybe someone will have a better answer. 
    • The stress is the force (on the spring) x distance. The maximum stress is at the bottom, and decreases up the arm. That's why they always break at the bottom. I used a round file, then something like 2000 grit to finish. I gave the rest of the arm a quick polish - no need for a perfect finish. Just make sure there are no 'notches' left from cutting/filing. The notches act like the perforations in your toilet paper 🤣
    • It's probably a cardinal rule for watch repair to never get distracted while at the bench. Yesterday, after finishing a tricky mainspring winding/barrel insertion (I didn't have a winder and arbor that fit very well) I mentally shifted down a gear once that hurdle was passed. There were other things going on in the room as I put the barrel and cover into the barrel closer and pressed to get that satisfying snap. But when I took it out I realized I never placed the arbor.  When opening a barrel, we are relying on the arbor to transfer a concentrically-distributed force right where it is needed at the internal center of the lid. However, when that isn't present it's difficult to apply pressure or get leverage considering the recessed position of the lid, the small holes in the barrel and the presence of the mainspring coils. It was a beat-up practice movement so I didn't take a lot of time to think it over and I pushed it out using a short right-angle dental probe placed in from the bottom, but that did leave a bit of a scratch and crease in the thin lid. I had also thought about pulling it using a course-threaded screw with a minor thread diameter smaller than the lid hole and a major diameter larger, but that may have done some damage as well.  Thinking about how this might have been handled had it been a more valuable movement, is there a method using watchmaking or other tools that should extract the lid with the least damage? 
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