Can't Remove Movement From Case

[Lawson]

Hi Guys,

 

I have a Rotary Watch with an AS1802 Movement, and the movement will not come out of the case :(

This is the very first watch I've worked on ... so please be gentle.

 

It looks much the same as the Rotary Watch Mark did a full strip, clean and reassembly on. So I thought it would be a good movement to do as my very first: watching and completing each step along with Mark on the vid.

 

 

... but when Mark starts the video, the movement is already outside the case.  No problem I thought, I can handle this. So...

 

I removed the case back.

I removed the stem.

I removed the case screw from the movement.

 

 

All of which I found easy enough to do.

 

After these steps, I expecting perhaps a movement ring to remove, and then for the movement to fall out of the case onto the pad ... well there was no movement ring (that I can see) and the movement didn't fall out freely.

 

After I inspected it more, I thought, "Well it might come out from the front", so I removed the glass with a crystal lift, and removed the hands so they don't get damaged.

Then I tried to lightly push it out the front ... still no joy!!!

 

I can't see what on earth is holding this movement in the case ... I can spin the movement around freely inside the case; but it will not move either forwards or backwards from the case.

 

Any and all advise would be most appreciated.

[Geo]

The movement will have to come out the front. If you look carefully you should see a very fine line between the ring/bezel that holds the glass. This is snap on and will have to be prised off with great care to prevent damage to the case. You would normally remove this bezel with the crystal still in place. This can be done with a back removal knife, but there is a special tool available that minimises the likely hood of damage. Once removed the movement should drop easily out of the case.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Geo

[WillFly]

I'm with Geo here. I thought at first the triangular hole above the case screw might be some kind of pry point but, if the movement revolves freely then it's obviously not snapped in.

Edited July 8, 2014 by WillFly

[Geo]

Here is a picture of the tool that I currently use for this operation.

[Lawson]

Eureka!

The movement is out!

 

Thank you so much Geo and WillFly for the fast reply and excellent advise.

 

 

.... now, back to the adventures of watch repair.

[Geo]

 

 

.... now, back to the adventures of watch repair.

Excellent, I hope all goes well.

[Lawson]

Just finished dismantling the watch ... No problems at all: didn't loose or break any parts.  Took a while, cause I was super careful, but a very satisfying and enjoyable evening  :)

 

Mark - Your detailed step-by-step videos, explaining everything carefully, taught me valuable skills, and gave me the confidents to tackle this job ... thanks mate, and keep them coming!!
 
The poor old thing is filthy dirty though ... here's some pics before her bath. (as soon as I get my cleaning machine up and running I'll post pics of her clean and running)

 

 

 

 

[WillFly]

Ooh... love the slimy green bits!

 

I look forward to seeing it after a good clean.

[autowind]

For a 1st. attempt you have done very well,  I had destroyed several before I ever got one apart and then back together, so well done that man.  :thumbsu:

[Geo]

Ooh... love the slimy green bits!

Maybe it was worn on the set of "Who Framed Roger Rabbit"!

[Lawson]

One more question guys. 

Would you recommend using a soft brush, in a small dish, to clean the worst of that nasty gunk off the bottom plate, before putting it in the cleaner, and badly contaminating the whole primary cleaning bottle?

[Geo]

I would give it a good wash with a brush and lighter fuel to take off the worst of it first.

Never use alcohol, it could soften any shellac on the likes of the escapement.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Geo

[Lawson]

By "lighter fuel", do you mean Shellite/White Spirits?

 

Terms are a little different here in Kangaroo Land :P

[Geo]

This stuff or equivalent.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/321423001591?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&device=t&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108&ff19=0

[bobm12]

I could use the second definition in Lawson's link on a watch I'm working on about now!

 

Lawson, if you are tackling those incablock jewels, use a small beaker and the lighter fluid and stir them carefully in it, by hand (glass stirrer is good). Don't clean the disassembled jewels in the machine. They should come out immaculate, examine them with your loupe. When assembled, use moebius 9010 on them. A tiny drop -- about 1/4 or less -- of the surface of the cap jewel should do it. Make sure you carry the amount you desire in the oiler since that's the only control you will have, again use your loupe to load it. Once a certain amount of oil is in the oiler that's what will go in, there is no control after that. Too much oil is bad! Make sure it goes in the whole and not outside. Remember, patience and control!

The incablock springs there, they are the easy ones! Happy watchmaking! I hope I've posted something useful to you.

 

Robert

[Lawson]

I'm humbled by all the help and rapid responses.

 

Will - Gotcha mate, I know what you mean now ... we call that Zippo Fluid here in Wombat Land :p

 

Robert - Thanks for all the info mate ... I must say, I'm a little nervous about oiling the incablocks.  They look so big on Mark's videos, but in flesh they are crazy small.  I'll follow your instructions to the letter, and let you know how I go.

[bobm12]

Looking forward to hear about it! I believe you'll do an excellent job. By the way, if you want some practice before tackling the real thing, you can use these:

 

http://www.tztoolshop.com/FB_Catalog_TZWS-toolkits.html so if you run into trouble, it's no big deal!

 

Robert

 

PS. I don't know if this link is useful to you, maybe there is an equivalent where you live?

[Lawson]

An update on the progress of my very first watch repair.

 

I went and purchased the Janta Cleaning Machine from Labanda. 

Here's some clear pictures of the unit, as there are only small thumbnail pictures on the internet at the moment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, when I unboxed it I discovered that the holder for the baskets was damaged, and one of the slots on the holder had broken off ... a little disappointing, but these things happen, and that's why items have a warranty.

 

BTW - These units come with 12 months full warranty.

 

 

So last night, I emailed Labanda, and sent photos of the damage, and explained this is how it came out of the box. 

 

First thing today I got a phone call from Jeff, the owner of Labanda, apologizing for the inconvenience.  He offered me an Elma basket (which of course will fit on the unit, as it's a direct copy of an Elma), shipped overnight to my door, to use, until they can arrange a replacement basket from Janta. 

Now THAT is top quality customer service!

 

So stay tuned, and as soon as I get sorted out with my new cleaner, I'll update the thread on my progress.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Lawson

[Lawson]

Got the new cleaning machine up and running today (many thanks to Jeff at Labanda for overnighting a replacement basket - awesome customer service!!)

 

The Janta unit ran smooth and very quietly.  No hassles at all.

 

 

And here's the results...

Nice clean parts in the tray now!

 

 

Escapement and the train wheels look much better.

 

 

Ratchet Teeth in the Winding Pinion are spotless as well. 

I inspected all parts with my 10x loupe and was astounded at the performance of the cleaner.

 

 

Now for the true test of this cleaning machine - the Base Plate.

 

 

If you remember in the earlier posts the base plate was horrid, with green, slimy, dried up grease on the posts, and heavy dirt build-up everywhere else.

This watch was BADLY in need of a service!

 

 

Firstly, I soaked the base plate in some Zippo Fluid (thanks for the tip Geo), and then gently bushed around the posts.  I also used a fine point to dislodge some of the real hardened deposits around the posts for the keyless work, and then rinsed-and-repeated the lighter fluid and bushing.

This is what I ended up with in the bottom of the bowl.

 

 

... so how does it look now, after manually cleaning and then a cycle through the cleaning machine?

Not bad at all!!

 

 

 

I got out the 10x loupe again and checked all the jewel holes and bearing surfaces ... absolutely spotless!!

Not bad for a budget cleaning machine that's about 1/4 the price of an Elma.

 

So now I'm waiting on my oils to be delivered before I can re-assemble the movement, (Moebius 8200, 9010, 9415, 9501, and D5), so until the postal service gets their act into gear the project is on pause again *sigh*.

 

 

 

 

 

[WillFly]

Very nice indeed - I thought I might miss the green slime, but I don't really!

[bobm12]

Sorry but green is my favorite color! Could we add some later on? Too much cleaning, it's not heavy anymore...ask for a refund! Just kidding!!!

 

Nice work Lawson and great machine. Keep it up! :rock:

 

I went to Labanda and registered. Since blue is my favorite color I might add a Janta to my **BLEEP**nal. I'm glad it all worked out with that broken part, also a plus to order from them.

 

Robert

[Lawson]

The oils finally came in the mail today!!

 

These were the last essential items I needed to complete the service on this AS1802.

I have to say, I got some pretty cheap oilers that weren't very nice to use; but I just couldn't afford those nice ergonomic jobbies Mark uses.

My oilers came with the oil pots for free ^_^

 

 

I got too excited and forgot to get pictures of the train wheels and mainspring assembly ... sorry about that.

But here's some pictures of the finished keyless work.  I was a bit nervous replacing that pinion gear, as I don't have a staking set yet ... ran out of dollars.  So I carefully replaced it by hand ... VERY carefully, and I was relived to say the least when it was complete.

 

 

Next was the motion work ... making sure that tension spring is on the correct side.

 

 

Pallets refitted, and exit stone oiled with 9415.  Be looking to get another loupe for this job, and 3x isn't quite high enough for me, and 10x is just too much magnification.

 

 

Balance was next to be installed after cleaning in Zippo Fluid.

Oiling the Incablocks I found the most challenging procedure.  Getting it just right took a few attempts.

I tried to get some pictures of the incablock so you could see if I'd done it correctly; but I don't think they came out good enough.

 

 

Next was the calendar. 

 

And finally a completed watch.  Hopefully have my Acetimer-1000 coming soon, and I can check to see if it needs adjusting.

 

 

Everything went to together smoothly, but oiling is a lot harder to do correctly than it looks on Mark's videos, but patience wins the day.

Next weekend I should be polishing the case at my brother's place (he's got a nice buffing machine); that is if he can get some time off work.

 

 

[bobm12]

Nice job Lawson! I like what your did!

[Geo]

That's a really tidy job Lawson, very well done sir! :-)

[bobm12]

I finally was OKed to buy stuff at Labanda (they require a membership). No more Janta's machines! I'm keeping an eye out for them when they arrive.