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TheBeerGuy

tools for newbs?

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So I've been reading about watch repair for the past few months and take it up as a hobby. Now I'm starting to look into buying some tools. My questions is are those cheap Chinese tool kits worth wasting my money on as I am looking at doing this as a hobby? Or can you recommend a site where I can order better quality tools? I work graveyard shift so its much easier for me to buy online.

Also can anyone recommend some watch repair books for someone getting into it? Just finished one and already looking for another.

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There are many threads covering this. In fact, one recently is largely the exact same topic, so maybe add to that thread to keep the useful results contained in one place.

Buy Practical Watch Repairing by De Carle. Stick with good quality tools in general: Get some Dumont tweezers (number 2 or 3) and European-made screwdrivers (eg. AF Swiss) as these parts replace your fingers since you will rarely touch the watch parts with your hands.

Cousins is an excellent online shop in the UK.

But best advice would be to use the search function!

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1 hour ago, rodabod said:

There are many threads covering this. In fact, one recently is largely the exact same topic, so maybe add to that thread to keep the useful results contained in one place.

Buy Practical Watch Repairing by De Carle. Stick with good quality tools in general: Get some Dumont tweezers (number 2 or 3) and European-made screwdrivers (eg. AF Swiss) as these parts replace your fingers since you will rarely touch the watch parts with your hands.

Cousins is an excellent online shop in the UK.

But best advice would be to use the search function!

Sorry I'm kind of new in the whole forum world so trying to learn as I go. And for the tools I kind of figured quality is key but figured I'd ask seeing I'm only doing this as a hobby.

I will also definitely check out that book. Thanks !!!!

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32 minutes ago, Cad101 said:

Even as a hobby its best to by the best tools within your budget you will only replace cheaper tools as you learn and you'll be amazed at how much of a difference quality tools make.

I agree buy the best tools you can afford ..You will soon need to replace the cheap ones which  are worth nothing Buy good tools and  if you decide this is not for you you can always sell them and recover most if not all of your cost

Cheap tools = Cheap results

 

Anthony

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I agree buy the best tools you can afford ..You will soon need to replace the cheap ones which  are worth nothing Buy good tools and  if you decide this is not for you you can always sell them and recover most if not all of your cost

Cheap tools = Cheap results

Thus is just a mantra and is not true. Some cheap tools are just fine, other are ridicolous. Some expensive tools are so overpriced that one can use the money so much better. The watchmaker does the results, not the tools.

 

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I agree largely with JDM, but you do have to know where you are best saving cash, and where it's important to buy the best.

Another item you want to have in the best quality (in my opinion) in a movement holder. The cheaper Indian ones slip, and the consequences can be disastrous. Just not worth it: get a standard metal Bergeon. Not expensive anyway.

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Image result for rolex case opener bergeon

The picture above is a Bergeon Rolex Case Opener that sells for over $700.00 dollars.  The picture below is a "cheap" tool and sells for around $150.00.

OEM STANDARD Bench case opener vice for screw-in water-proof case back 

I own one of these and it works great.

This is a set of STELLA tweezers. They are well made, work great and cost around $30.00 for the set.

Image result for stella tweezers

This is a sew of movement holders and sells for $2.43

12 watch movement holders

This is a set of Bergeon screwdrivers that sells for around $480.00.

BERGEON 10 PIECE WATCH SCREWDRIVER SET - ROTATING BASE - Swiss Made

This is a set of cheap screwdrivers that sell for $5.49.

9pcs Precision Watch Flat Blade Slotted 0.5-2.5mm 9 Sizes Tips Screwdriver Tools

Aside from the tips, which can be inexpensively replaced, they work about the same and do the same job.

david

Edited by david

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Good post David!  I have two sets of the $5.49 screwdrivers you illustrated and have been using them for a few years now.  One set I have dressed to fit narrow screw slots and the other dressed for wide slots.  I have never had a blade break or bend.

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Thebeerguy,

A few books to get you started are:

WATCH REPAIR FOR BEGINNERS by Kelly

PRACTICAL WATCH REPAIRING by Donald de Carle

CHICAGO SCHOOL OF WATCHMAKING by Thomas B. Sweazey  (available from Lulu Press)

WATCH REPAIR TRAINING MANUAL by Arde Bulova (This was the training manuel for the Bulova School of Watchmakig and would be my choice if I could only pick one.)

These should give you enough information to  begin the learning process. Once you develop a knowledge background Mark Lovick's incredible repair videos will begin to make sense.

david

Edited by david

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2 hours ago, david said:

The picture above is a Bergeon Rolex Case Opener that sells for over $700.00 dollars.  The picture below is a "cheap" tool and sells for around $150.00.

Exactly. Mine is on order as I'm writing this. Should I add about the Chinese timegrapher (now even Cousins carry them) $130 Vs Swiss 1,500? Basic pressure tester $160 Vs Bergeon $500 ? Bench mat $10 Vs 45?

If people (especially beginners) has a fetish and feels blessed buying expensive tools, I guess that's good for them!

 

 

Edited by jdm

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JDM,

 Tools either do the job or they do not. I also have the inexpensive timegrapher and it works  fine. I forgot to mention the small size $7.98 demagnetizer  that has proven to be  indispensable when turning a small part on a lathe.

Watch Repair Screwdriver Tweezers Electrical Demagnetise Demagnetizer Tools

This is an "offical Rolex paperweight" that sells for $1000.00. I can't believe that there are people in the world who feel that an item like this will do a better job holding down a piece of paper.

rolex green crystal salviati triplock crown paperweight very rare 2011

david 

david

Edited by david

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7 minutes ago, david said:

This is an "offical Rolex paperweight" that sells for $1000.00. I can't believe that there are people in the world who feel that an item like this will do a better job holding down a piece of paper.

A fool and his money are soon parted.

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Firstly let's dispel the myth that Bergeon are overpriced. If so , market forces would of come into play and Bergeon would, as a company, long since ceased to trade. Yet they continue to flourish.
Having said that I totally agree with Jdm. I have a set of six Anchor screwdrivers that are absolutely brilliant BUT if I bought another set from the same supplier would they be as good? and this is the problem with cheap tools. Guarantee of quality, even from one batch to another.
I bought a set of cheap drivers almost Identical to the ones pictured by "David " and they were so bad I only ever use them as levers.
I own quite a lot of Bergeon tools having replaced the cheap rubbish over time and everything I have ever purchased has been perfect in every respect. Also Horotec have some very good products.
The above is not to say you can't find some great bargains in cheaper brands if the "Gods" are with you but it's a hit and miss affair at best.
"Watchmakers does the results, not the tools" sure but most professionals won't tolerate working with rubbish, as well, like in any "Trade"

Sent from my SM-T585 using Tapatalk

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This is a set of Bergeon tweezers and the set sells for $435.66. The Bergeon screwdrivers were $480.00, the Bergeon case opener was $749.00, two Bergeon hand levers $219.00, set of three Bergeon hand setting tools $57.80, two Bergeon eye loupes $93.60, a Bergeon watchmaker hammer for $31.40, a Bergeon automatic watch winder for $1559.00, Bergeon oil cups and oilers $259.00, a Bergeon staking set for $995.00 and a  Bergeon rubber blower $13.88. This comes to $4893.34 to get started working on watches. This is certainly one route to take. If it is $13.88 over budget then hold off on the rubber blower.

david 

 

 

HT7028.jpg?itok=1ja9IzNU

Edited by david

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I agree with dinngstony

While I would not buy a $480 set of Bergeon screw drivers, out of my price range, maybe if I had deeper pockets.  I surely would not purchase a $5 set either, unless it was all could afford.

When it comes to doing precision work personally I like the best I can afford. The best I can afford does not necessarily tie it to price. 

While I am pretty new to watch repair myself,  what I do know is when I do other types of work Wood working, Electronics, with more accurate tools ( IE: better saws and blades - less run-out, Soldering irons that can be temperature adjusted ) I do a better job with a lot less aggravation. 

Buying better used equipment in good condition at discounted prices is the way to go. 

Not to repeat myself, another upside is you can always sell better tools if you do not need them any more. See how many people will want to buy your cheap tools.

In the end its all relative, if cheap is all you can afford its not cheap to you.

 

 

 

 

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On 2/11/2017 at 11:07 AM, jdm said:

Thus is just a mantra and is not true. Some cheap tools are just fine, other are ridicolous. Some expensive tools are so overpriced that one can use the money so much better. The watchmaker does the results, not the tools.

 

While the watchmaker does the results as you put it .. If they cut corners on the tools of their trade, chances are they cut corners on the quality of their work.

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2 hours ago, david said:

 

This is a set of Bergeon tweezers and the set sells for $435.66. The Bergeon screwdrivers were $480.00, the Bergeon case opener was $749.00, two Bergeon hand levers $219.00, set of three Bergeon hand setting tools $57.80, two Bergeon eye loupes $93.60, a Bergeon watchmaker hammer for $31.40, a Bergeon automatic watch winder for $1559.00, Bergeon oil cups and oilers $259.00, a Bergeon staking set for $995.00 and a  Bergeon rubber blower $13.88. This comes to $4893.34 to get started working on watches. This is certainly one route to take. If it is $13.88 over budget then hold off on the rubber blower.

david 

 

 

 

Oh my ! At this price, I do not think these tools are for beginners. But I can be wrong .. Price, is this the reality of what it is worth? .. It seems to me that it is expensive a little do not you think?

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Seiko,

In my view the actual quality of a tool is its ability to perform the task that is expected of it. Other considerations are simply sales fluff. Once I discovered that the Bergeon lathe was actually manufactured by a company (Dixie) that is owned by Mori Seki (a Japanese company), I began to take a closer look at what Bergeon actually is. In contrast to Horia, which actually does manufacture products, I suspect that Bergeon is really  a sales and distribution operation. This would explain why many of their products look exactly like similar products that are marketed as Chinese. There will always be a hard core element that looks a lot more closely at a brand name than the actual product. They will always look the the Chinese product as "cheap Chinese junk" and a Swiss label as "the finest quality". This is in spite of the fact that both products are probably made in the same Chinese factory.  While I see nothing wrong with that world view I simply have a different way of looking at things. After all, why pay a reasonable price for something that does a great job when you can pay an excessive price for something that does the same job and has a designer label.

david

 

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Oh my ! At this price, I do not think these tools are for beginners. But I can be wrong .. Price, is this the reality of what it is worth? .. It seems to me that it is expensive a little do not you think?

There's very little on David's list I personally would buy.except the blower.
I purchased a brand new set of Bergeon screwdrivers in there wooden box for £100 app, which are absolutely superb.
As for Auto winders, they are a convenience rather than beneficial. That is if you where different watches on a regular basis. Remembering if the watch lacks lubrication through lack of service or being done incorrectly. Keeping the watch running will lead to accelerated wear.
Also I have a set of Bergeon auto oilers that are superb, that I acquired for my last birthday. The cost would of been around £140.
You don't have to break the bank to buy quality tools, just be prudent on what you buy.
The cost and value of any product, really depends on your point of view. Elma do an ultrasonic cleaning machine which costs over $10,000 is it worth it ? If I had the available cash I'd certainly like to find out.

Sent from my SM-T585 using Tapatalk

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3 hours ago, david said:

Seiko,

In my view the actual quality of a tool is its ability to perform the task that is expected of it. Other considerations are simply sales fluff. Once I discovered that the Bergeon lathe was actually manufactured by a company (Dixie) that is owned by Mori Seki (a Japanese company), I began to take a closer look at what Bergeon actually is. In contrast to Horia, which actually does manufacture products, I suspect that Bergeon is really  a sales and distribution operation. This would explain why many of their products look exactly like similar products that are marketed as Chinese. There will always be a hard core element that looks a lot more closely at a brand name than the actual product. They will always look the the Chinese product as "cheap Chinese junk" and a Swiss label as "the finest quality". This is in spite of the fact that both products are probably made in the same Chinese factory.  While I see nothing wrong with that world view I simply have a different way of looking at things. After all, why pay a reasonable price for something that does a great job when you can pay an excessive price for something that does the same job and has a designer label.

david

 

I 100% agree with you David.  For years I have thought that a lot of the "High Quality" (expensive) stuff has come from China, and not just watchmakers tools.

The bottom line is buy what works well makes you happy, whether it cost hundreds of pounds or pennies, just choose carefully guys.

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Some cheap tools are fine & some not. A good example being, I purchased a a chinese set of Rolex style case opening dies for approx. £30 (see pic below). However when used they would not hold under pressure and slipped and I could not open a 3135 Rolex case. I then raided my savings and purchased a Horortec opener (Horotec 07.320) for £230
BUT it worked perfectly first time & works first time very time with no issues. Unfortunately in horology some tools are expensive.

THESE DID NOT WORK (for me anyway)

58a16acdd7aba_ScreenShot2017-02-13at08_05_54.png.f1549a2448f3294013c6104c7815b9c1.png

BUT THIS TOOL WORKS 100%

58a16af90ee2d_ScreenShot2017-02-13at08_10_13.png.c1ef0e6b97f3d6fec9a1ad17867eeec5.png

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While the watchmaker does the results as you put it .. If they cut corners on the tools of their trade, chances are they cut corners on the quality of their work.

No corners are cut, be reassured. We are trying to explain how most tools are exactly the same but overprice by Bergeon and others. BTW are you a professional? Sorry I didn't read your introduction.

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