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david

Some Of My Watch Lathes

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About 2 years ago I bought the complete set of  8mm WW  collets from Sincere. The collet set cost me more than twice what I initially paid for the lathe. The lathe was $450.00  when I bought it many years ago. This price included the cross slide, lever collet holding tailstock and free shipping. Since I bought it, price increases have almost doubled the cost of the basic lathe package. When I brought this up on another forum years ago the usual  nasty comments came  out calling the machine "a piece of Chinese junk".  These comments were made by people who never used the machine. With only a few exceptions (Boley F1, Star, Cowells) I also have every other model of watchmaker lathe in existence, so I had other machines to compare it to.   In some respects, I took a chance when I bought it, but it turned out to be  an extremely accurate, dependable  lathe. Personally, I am very happy with the machine.  

 I gradually added the other accessories over subsequent years and pretty  much have  everything Sincere offers for the  lathe. Their quiet running  induction motor was around $200.00 but I like it much better than the brush type universal motors that are normally used. The  induction motor turns the same RPM whether running free or under a load during a cut. This helps keep a  consistant chip load and reduces pivot breakage during the turning operation.

david

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I know a chap nearby who has a Pultra watchmakers lathe probably for sale and offered me first refusal...No money mentioned yet but I wondered if anyone has any experience with this particular make. It has all its collets and looks in quite good order. He tells me it has never been used for watchmaking but before he retired he made tiny components for the aero industry.

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Pultra is top quality.  It was a brand of Smart Brown who was top maker of lathes, everything the did was high end.  Their venerable 1024 stood in the same class as a Monarch 10ee or Hardingle HLV for example.  Scoop it up if in good shape and with all the bits and pieces.

They also made a larger 10mm lathe, sort of in between a watchmakers and instrument makers.  A nice addition to any shop....here's mine

EVGFDOG.jpg

 

 

 

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Pultra is top quality.  It was a brand of Smart Brown who was top maker of lathes, everything the did was high end.  Their venerable 1024 stood in the same class as a Monarch 10ee or Hardingle HLV for example.  Scoop it up if in good shape and with all the bits and pieces.
They also made a larger 10mm lathe, sort of in between a watchmakers and instrument makers.  A nice addition to any shop....here's mine
EVGFDOG.jpg&key=d9b230b95b4ff841c4f07819ae7ca9df6e74a9f95e19f2c9133f715154813554
 
 
 

Who owns the pivot polisher in the lower right side of this photo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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21 hours ago, measuretwice said:

Pultra is top quality.  It was a brand of Smart Brown who was top maker of lathes, everything the did was high end.  Their venerable 1024 stood in the same class as a Monarch 10ee or Hardingle HLV for example.  Scoop it up if in good shape and with all the bits and pieces.

They also made a larger 10mm lathe, sort of in between a watchmakers and instrument makers.  A nice addition to any shop....here's mine

 

 

 

   i ran a big EE.   no gear  shift,  varable speed head stock, a good feature.  vin

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Measure Twice

I worked in a machine shop (WB George Manufacturing Company) for 22 years. We had a Hardinge HLV.  It was far and away one of the most accurate machines I ever saw. When a part had to be turned or bored down to .0001 inches, all you had to do was dial the tool in and cut metal. Work to this accuracy could be done on other machines but the machining  required secondary operations such as sanding with emery paper or in some cases a secondary grinding operation. It was certainly one of the finest lathes ever made. Hardinge stopped making the HLV a few years ago but another company in Taiwan (Feeler) makes a copy of the Hardinge HLV lathe. I have never used the Feeler lathe but the reports I read about it are that it is just as accurate as the Hardinge was.

david 

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7 hours ago, vinn3 said:

   i ran a big EE.   no gear  shift,  varable speed head stock, a good feature.  vin

 

I think between the 10ee and HLV the 10ee is nicer just barely, but its like arguing about Ferrari and a 911 turbo, they're both friggin awesome.  Very often though, the HLV is the nicer one you come across as they tend to newer than the 10ee's and they do have that nifty threading feature.   The last 10ee's made a few years ago were reported sold for $100,000!  A 10x20" lathe weighing 3000lbs, 10 -4000 rpm and 5hp, its a beast.  Both (like most high end tool lathes) are belt driven to minimize vibration that can show up in the finish.  Here's my '42 round dial (my second biggest lathe lol)  with the gearbox torn apart. just so you guys can see why I'm not getting more watch work done.   Also had to make a new drive for it, by adapting a 3P 5hp motor to the backdrive (2 speed gearbox down below), a work in progress

gg6JnIS.jpg?1

oFbLjvQ.jpg

uLDcS91.jpg

IOvUqZy.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by measuretwice

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7 hours ago, jdrichard said:


Any wisdom or info on how to use it? I now have the exact same one.

 

not really, I'm a beginner at it as well.  its essentially a lap which I've a fair bit of.  The right way to work with a lap is change a lap by pressing abrasive into and it becomes a cutting tool.  You only ever us it for a single grit/type of abrasive and use with a bit of oil.  You usually work by moving up in grits.  My plan was to make a set of tools for it as I've no idea whats there.  That's based on lapping knowledge though, not specific knowledge for this tool....we'll have to get those recommended books!

 

Levin - Practical Benchwork for Horologists

Archie B. Perkins - Antique Watch Restoration

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19 minutes ago, david said:

With that lathe you could change your name to MEASURE ONCE.

 

lol, here's the big one....obviously not watchmaking, but I gets use to make tools and stuff for watchmaking and smaller equipment so I justify its inclusion.  To continue the car analogies, this ones sometimes called the Rolls Royce of lathes.  its a '68 Dean Smith and Grace (DSG) 13x42" weighing in a 5100 lbs and 7 1/2Hp.  I once took a 1 5/16" DOC with a .005" feed in steel just to see what would happen and it didn't even groan.  right off the gear box you can cut metric, imperial, diametrical and modular pitches and up to 8 start threads.   Its such a nice machine, its become almost an emotional attachment lol

73BqWKc.jpg

 

Edited by measuretwice

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17 hours ago, measuretwice said:

 

I think between the 10ee and HLV the 10ee is nicer just barely, but its like arguing about Ferrari and a 911 turbo, they're both friggin awesome.  Very often though, the HLV is the nicer one you come across as they tend to newer than the 10ee's and they do have that nifty threading feature.   The last 10ee's made a few years ago were reported sold for $100,000!  A 10x20" lathe weighing 3000lbs, 10 -4000 rpm and 5hp, its a beast.  Both (like most high end tool lathes) are belt driven to minimize vibration that can show up in the finish.  Here's my '42 round dial (my second biggest lathe lol)  with the gearbox torn apart. just so you guys can see why I'm not getting more watch work done.   Also had to make a new drive for it, by adapting a 3P 5hp motor to the backdrive (2 speed gearbox down below), a work in progress

gg6JnIS.jpg?1

oFbLjvQ.jpg

uLDcS91.jpg

IOvUqZy.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

   the EE i ran years ago had a very complicated electric (with vaccum tubes [valves]),  elentronic drive to control the r.p.m.'s - that often failed !   ill take gear change any time.  vin

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Measure Twice,

Do you have 3-phase power going to your shop?  The shop I worked in had large machines weighing thousands of pounds. Some of the motors were large enough to allow a person to fit inside the motor casing. Almost everything ran of of 3-phase power.

david

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th

Quote

e EE i ran years ago had a very complicated electric (with vaccum tubes [valves]),  elentronic drive to control the r.p.m.'s - that often failed !   ill take gear change any time.

The belt drive is superior for this type of lathe.   Mine was a originally a Ward Leonard drive, the tubes you mentioned came in later models.   Unless the drives are scrap, most guys chose them as they are superior,  the tube drives more so than the WL drive imo because of noise.  None of the common drive replacements equal the performance of the original DC motors - they were a large diameter with a huge number of poles so very high torque could be had a low RPM.  Of course with a machine tool, you want torque to go up as speed goes down (so power stays the same) and mostly you have to accomplish that via a mechanical transmission, it was one of the features of these lathes that it was done so electronically over an impressive speed range (10-4000 rpm).  

As mine didn't come with a drive, just the backgear, I'm using a 5hp motor, the back gear and VFD to get the range of speeds.    I'm sure my approach will be fine as I don't really need it to run at 10rpm with full power, as I have the DSG goes down to 17 and as its geared, you get full hp at the lower speeds

 

Quote

Do you have 3-phase power going to your shop?

I make it, homemade 10hp rotary phase converter, 240 1P in, 240 3P out.  A lot of my machines, like the DSG are 600V so I also step the homemade 3P up to 600V 3P.   For the 10ee though, I'm going to use single phase 240 into a VFD;  an over rated VFD with 1P in will properly drive a 3P motor.  Ideally I'd have VFD's on every machine and do away with the RPC (tired of the background drone, and having to move across the crowded shop to turn it on when I want to run a machine), but vfd's are expensive for high HP's and you need one for each machine.

 

Mike

Edited by measuretwice

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