SEIKO 6309 service

[R1C4]

I am currently underway on my first strip down and service. I have purchased an old SEIKO 6309-510A from ebay and I have stripped it down with no issues so far. I am going to clean the moment using an old Brenray cleaning machine that I have recently overhauled.

I have a few questions regarding lubrication, if any one could help me I would be most appreciative. The oils I have are - Moebius 9010, D5, 941, 9501 would I be able to substitute these for the recommended oils by SEIKO? - I have attached the 6309A data sheet.

24._6309A.pdf

The next question that I have is regarding the mainspring. 

From what I've been reading, I believe it would be best to replace this with new, however I think I may struggle to find one that is new. Does anyone know where I could get a new one ? or would you recommend just removing it and cleaning an re lubricating. If the cleaning option is the only one I have what Oil/Grease would I need, could I get away with using anything that I already have.

 

[Blacklab]

Apparently this should do: Generale Ressorts 1.05 x .115 x 420 x 10.5 Automatic ref no: GR2534X available from Cousins.

[rogart63]

Seiko mainsprings are usually very good. I normally just clean the old Seiko grease and relube the with 8217 and 8200 grease. Seiko i think use S-4 for the mainspring? It's available on Ebay. There is some Moebius grease that has graphite that would work fine. Can't remember it's number now. 

[jdm]

1 minute ago, rogart63 said:

Seiko mainsprings are usually very good. I normally just clean the old Seiko grease and relube the with 8217 and 8200 grease. Seiko i think use S-4 for the mainspring? It's available on Ebay. There is some Moebius grease that has graphite that would work fine. Can't remember it's number now. 

That's 8301, which is what I use. But S-4 is loaded with lithium molybdenum, not graphite. Moebius 8201 is loaded with molybdenum disulphide.

[rogart63]

2 hours ago, jdm said:

That's 8301, which is what I use. But S-4 is loaded with lithium molybdenum, not graphite. Moebius 8201 is loaded with molybdenum disulphide.

Then it's S-2 they use? Must be graphite in there mainspring grease? Always getting black in the pot when i clean them out?

Are you sure about the 8301? Looking at google 8301 contains graphite? 

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/moebius-8301-with-graphite

[jdm]

Just now, rogart63 said:

Are you sure about the 8301? Looking at google 8301 contains graphite? 

That is what I said above:

• 8301 == graphite
• 8201 ==   molybdenum disulphide.

[rogart63]

8 minutes ago, jdm said:

That is what I said above:

• 8301 == graphite
• 8201 ==   molybdenum disulphide.

I just misunderstand . 

Closest you get to Seiko mainspring grease is 8301? Right? 

[jdm]

1 minute ago, rogart63 said:

Closest you get to Seiko mainspring grease is 8301? Right? 

Going by composition, closest would be 8201 since it has the same additive as S-4:  molybdenum.

But personally I don't really care, as I don't even open Seiko barrels, and use it only for metal-to-metal winding parts.

[rogart63]

1 hour ago, jdm said:

Going by composition, closest would be 8201 since it has the same additive as S-4:  molybdenum.

But personally I don't really care, as I don't even open Seiko barrels, and use it only for metal-to-metal winding parts.

I seldom take the spring out. Only clean it inside the barrel. let is dry over night and grease and put it togheter again  make sure i get clean where the arbor gets out .Will take a 8301 home next time.

[R1C4]

Would there be any harm in using Moebius 8200 on the mainspring. I believe this is a more general use grease which i could use on other mainsprings in other watches - I don't really want to have to buy loads of different types.

 

16 hours ago, Blacklab said:

Apparently this should do: Generale Ressorts 1.05 x .115 x 420 x 10.5 Automatic ref no: GR2534X available from Cousins.

Thanks Blacklab - Ill have a look at the condition of the mainspring when i remove it and if needed I'll look at ordering one.

[jdm]

6 hours ago, R1C4 said:

Would there be any harm in using Moebius 8200 on the mainspring. I believe this is a more general use grease which i could use on other mainsprings in other watches - I don't really want to have to buy loads of different types.

Some say that mainspring should not lubricated at all. If this is the first movement you work on I suggest you focus on acquiring skills and don't worry too much about different type of lubricants. 

[R1C4]

1 hour ago, jdm said:

Some say that mainspring should not lubricated at all. If this is the first movement you work on I suggest you focus on acquiring skills and don't worry too much about different type of lubricants. 

I understand what you are saying, however I would want to cover as much as possible. I don't mind taking my time, but I would like to cover everything in a service. 

[jdm]

18 minutes ago, R1C4 said:

I understand what you are saying, however I would want to cover as much as possible. I don't mind taking my time, but I would like to cover everything in a service. 

Check: 

 

[R1C4]

Thanks. There is some informative information there. I guess it depends on the type of mainspring. 

[rogart63]

9 hours ago, R1C4 said:

Would there be any harm in using Moebius 8200 on the mainspring. I believe this is a more general use grease which i could use on other mainsprings in other watches - I don't really want to have to buy loads of different types.

 

Thanks Blacklab - Ill have a look at the condition of the mainspring when i remove it and if needed I'll look at ordering one.

Work for me. Have serviced lots of Seiko watches with 8200 on the mainspring.  Should be fine? 

Save the trouble this first time and don't remove the mainspring?  It's a little tricky to hand  wind it in again? If you want some to practice on i have some you can have if you like?

[jdm]

Another vote for leaving the mainspring alone. Not because it's very difficult, which is not, but I think it's kind of unfunny for a beginner. Beside, one for sure does't want to lubricate it with skin or finger  gloves fragments.

Edited November 7, 2016 by jdm

[anilv]

Ric,

Go ahead and clean/lubricate if you feel like it.

The proper grease has 'braking' qualities which allows more tension to build before it 'slips'. Normal oil/grease means you may not build max tension...The spring will 'slip' earlier, maybe 80%, maybe 70%?

Getting the spring back in the barrel is tough but doable. You risk mangling it and that will put everything on hold until you get a replacement. Personally I would...a lot of wear takes place inside the barrel.

Here's a tip, when winding the spring back in, do it facing away from your work bench. A spring which gets away has a lot of energy and can mess up your workbench, scattering stuff all over the place.

Also, wearing eye protection is a good idea for newbies.

Anil

[R1C4]

12 hours ago, rogart63 said:

Work for me. Have serviced lots of Seiko watches with 8200 on the mainspring.  Should be fine? 

Save the trouble this first time and don't remove the mainspring?  It's a little tricky to hand  wind it in again? If you want some to practice on i have some you can have if you like?

Did you put the 8200 on the mainspring and another product on the barrel wall (say 8217). Thanks for the offer for the practice parts but I do feel confident to do it. If the mainspring is broken or I do cock it up it will give me the experience of sizing a new one. 

 

10 hours ago, anilv said:

Also, wearing eye protection is a good idea for newbies.

 

That's a good point - thank you.

[rogart63]

56 minutes ago, R1C4 said:

Did you put the 8200 on the mainspring and another product on the barrel wall (say 8217). Thanks for the offer for the practice parts but I do feel confident to do it. If the mainspring is broken or I do cock it up it will give me the experience of sizing a new one. 

 

 

That's a good point - thank you.

Yepp . That is what i do? Sometimes the grease inside is looking like old thread. Then i do need to clean the spring. But in every other case i put 8217 in the little gap between the spring and the barrel wall. Then 2-3 small dots of 8200 on the spring. That is working for me. 

Have now ordered 8301 so will be using that in the future. 

Edited November 8, 2016 by rogart63

[R1C4]

I'll get some oil / grease ordered and let you all know how i get on. 

Rich