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When to Service or Regulate


Question

I have an Omega Speedmaster 1861 which is gaining 55-60 seconds per day. How can you tell if the watch needs a service or just regulating? I have checked the watch for magnetism and it is not magnetised. The watch was originally purchased in 2010. I only wear the watch a few times per month.

I have made a short video of the watch on a Timegrapher .

 

Any suggestions / comments would be most appreciated.

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17 hours ago, R1C4 said:

Thanks 

I drew the watches and made a spreadsheet which calculates the averages as you type them in. 

I can send it you if you like. 

 

 

That would be great! I'll send you a PM.

Thanks!

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16 hours ago, noirrac1j said:

Yep.

No, the years count does not mandate service. The timegrapher is there to show how the movement is performing. Today's lubricants have a longer life than before, Rolex is recommending 7-8 years between service, and even 10 would not cause any damage.

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The lubricants will guaranteed still be there, good chance tho they are picking up contaminants, that's why it's prudent to service no matter what the timegrapher says. Even Rolex with their official line of 5 to 7 year service interval would still rather they see it every 5. Average interval for all Rolex calibers I service (Rolex service center) is 6 years.

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36 minutes ago, Brian3 said:

The lubricants will guaranteed still be there, good chance tho they are picking up contaminants, that's why it's prudent to service no matter what the timegrapher says. Even Rolex with their official line of 5 to 7 year service interval would still rather they see it every 5. Average interval for all Rolex calibers I service (Rolex service center) is 6 years.

Contaminants from where? As mentioned before, these are waterproof, even if with modest rating in this case. Remember that the more you manipulate a watch and movement, the more likely some part will break, get lost, or the case scratched.

I surely believe that Rolex and the other manufacturers would love to see all their watches visiting their service centers as often as possible.

  

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Minor little technical detail the lift angle is 50° not 52. Then Omega has specifications for how to time their watches this way you can actually compared to what they have. So I'm attaching an image from the service manual explaining the various positions their timing with. Then from the other document what they actually expect to see in all of these positions.

So important reminders for timing after winding the watch up you let it run a little bit Omega is recommending between 30 and 90 minutes. Then 30 seconds stabilization time between positions. Then perhaps the most important averaging over 20 seconds. I don't know what your machine defaults to it can be set to 20 seconds though.

 

 

Omega 1861a timing.JPG

omega 1861a.JPG

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1 hour ago, jdm said:

Contaminants from where? As mentioned before, these are waterproof, even if with modest rating in this case. Remember that the more you manipulate a watch and movement, the more likely some part will break, get lost, or the case scratched.

I surely believe that Rolex and the other manufacturers would love to see all their watches visiting their service centers as often as possible.

  

Any metal on metal area even with lubrication has wear, this wear is the contaminant, I see it on a daily basis, it happens.

Also if you are likely to break something, lose something or scratch something I suggest you don't go anywhere near the inside of a watch.

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27 minutes ago, Brian3 said:

Any metal on metal area even with lubrication has wear, this wear is the contaminant, I see it on a daily basis, it happens.

Also if you are likely to break something, lose something or scratch something I suggest you don't go anywhere near the inside of a watch.

Of cause Rolex want you to send them your watch every few years. There nothing but money grabbing parasites.

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4 hours ago, jdm said:

No, the years count does not mandate service. The timegrapher is there to show how the movement is performing. Today's lubricants have a longer life than before, Rolex is recommending 7-8 years between service, and even 10 would not cause any damage.

I agree that today's oils last longer, but does one really want to wait until something is damaged to perform an overhaul...especially on a movement of quality? No.

Please excuse my casual earlier reply. To answer @R1C4's question explicitly, the timegrapher indicates that perhaps a simple tweak will get it running properly. But If you can comfortably afford an overhaul, then do so. The 1861 chrono is expensive to service, and right now it may not urgently need it. I don't know if anyone here takes cost into account, but I do!

It is a beautiful watch.

J

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I agree that today's oils last longer, but does one really want to wait until something is damaged to perform an overhaul...especially on a movement of quality? No.


I also think that the issue of "damaging the movement" running it outside the suggested service interval is greatly exaggerated. Here we see a lot of thread s where old watches, neglected ans with service history unknown, perform flawlessly after... service. Some even without that.

Collector's watches, manual wind watches as well very fine ones are typically not run every day. And if something is not run, there will be no damage to it. Storing a watch to wear it a couple times a month if much, but paying to the tune of $300 (plus the hassle) every 5 years just sound insane to me.
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3 hours ago, Brian3 said:

Also if you are likely to break something, lose something or scratch something I suggest you don't go anywhere near the inside of a watch.

Beside that I wasn't referring to myself doing the work, I find your statement quite rude. If you haven't ever lost, broken or scratched anything please learn to tolerate that others less talented than you do exist.

Edited by jdm
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Thank-you for the information @JohnR725 where did you acquire it from? I shall run the tests in the specified positions, and post when get chance.

Good spot with the Balance angle, I was sure that i had set it at 50 Degrees, and I had in the first video. My machine must reset to 52 when turned off.......you learn something every day :) . 

 

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Thank-you for the information @JohnR725 

Good spot with the Balance angle, I was sure that i had set it at 50 Degrees, and I had in the first video. My machine must reszet to 52 when turned off.......you learn something every day [emoji4]

Yes, these machines don't save any parameter. But the rate is not affected by using the wrong angle, and the amplitude reading error is very small, about 1 to 1 in deg. In another thread John had posted a formula confirming this.
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17 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Of cause Rolex want you to send them your watch every few years. There nothing but money grabbing parasites.

 

A bit grumpy today? :)

Even though I'm unlikely to ever own one, I consider Rolex to be a bit different from the other swiss "luxury" brands. They are a very unique organization. Their watch movements have their own DNA, and they actually do real R&D. If they've managed to survive and thrive by "upscaling" their market, more power to them!

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I went right of Rolex and there stupid ways right back in the 70's when all of a sudden they decided to stop supplying any parts to watchmakers/repairers. No matter how small the repair was if you needed a part you had to send it to them or take it to an agent, at the time I was working in Devon and there were only two Rolex agents in Devon. They never did part repairs and even then it would cost a bomb, you might say well if you can afford a Rolex you can afford to have it repaired. They thought their watchmakers were the best and some guy out side of Rolex wouldn't be able to undertake the job at a fraction of the price. Good watches yes, do I like the company NO. Its just as well they all didn't follow because if so you guys wouldn't be doing what you do now, it would have killed the watchmaker/repairer.

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Well, Swatch (owners of Omega)  is doing the same thing, so there really isn't going to be a lot of room for the independent watchmaker/repairer, at least as far as Swiss watches are concerned. Too bad, I've done benchwork in a repair center environment (electronics) and didn't like it. Too much throughput pressure. 

Vintage, asian (Seiko etc.), and micro-brand (mostly asian) watches is where the action is! 

 

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4 hours ago, dadistic said:

Well, Swatch (owners of Omega)  is doing the same thing, so there really isn't going to be a lot of room for the independent watchmaker/repairer, at least as far as Swiss watches are concerned. Too bad, I've done benchwork in a repair center environment (electronics) and didn't like it. Too much throughput pressure. 

Vintage, asian (Seiko etc.), and micro-brand (mostly asian) watches is where the action is! 

 

Omega is interesting in that parts still are available if you go to their class. Take their class you can then order parts and get their technical data. The only problem is the backlog to take the class is now several years. I know a watchmaker who took the class it was free he can't say anything bad about it he was very pleased with the whole thing. But I've heard from other watchmakers who didn't instantly jump on the opportunity now have been told it will be several years before they can get into the class at all because of the huge backlog.

So if you know somebody who's done the class then technical documentation can be acquired. Unfortunately Omega is paranoid and all documentation has been watermarked on the corners so they will know where it comes from should it find its way onto the Internet. But older documentation is available online if you're willing to search for it.

So I've attached the technical sheet for the 1861 page 16 tells you how to time the watch.

 

omega_1861.pdf

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The only other thing I would suggest is after you have regulated and have a decent horizontal line running across the timegrapher. When you change positions of the watch, look for a curve in the pattern line (I don't mean wavy) and a significant variation of amplitude. This would indicate a "Dry" or bad lubrication of the movement.
From what I saw I tend to agree with JDM'S. view. Couldn't see any reason for concern but because it is an Omega having it serviced regularly will bring you piece of mind.
As for waterproof cases being impregnable to contamination "Dirt finds away" particular with mechanical movements when the crown is lifted for adjustments. Unfortunately the movements cycle creates a "Suction" That's normally why the keyless work can be the dirtiest part of the movement.


Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

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On 10/30/2016 at 10:09 PM, digginstony said:

 

The only other thing I would suggest is after you have regulated and have a decent horizontal line running across the timegrapher. When you change positions of the watch, look for a curve in the pattern line (I don't mean wavy) and a significant variation of amplitude. This would indicate a "Dry" or bad lubrication of the movement.

 

Thank-you for the Information. Its good to learn different ways to interpret the Timegrapher.

 

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I've been wearing  watch for over a week now and have just checked the accuracy. the watch has gained about 10 seconds. At night i rested the watch face down. I'm happy with this at the moment, but I will definitely plan a service in the not too distant future. 

Thank-you all for your information. 

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I'm happy with this at the moment, but I will definitely plan a service in the not too distant future. 

In the meanwhile you can practice on cheap movements so when the time comes you'll be able to do it yourself.
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On 24/10/2016 at 5:35 PM, jdm said:

What do you mean? Which types of work would change the service interval? As mentioned above, oils dry up any, no matter if the watch is worn or not.

 This post is old but ,..Indeed, you're right ! No matter what work we have, a watch is supposedly worn every day in normal times. At one time, people could not afford to have more than one watch. So they wore it every day no matter what the job. And yes a cleaning and oiling must be done in a certain period of time.

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Also if you are likely to break something, lose something or scratch something I suggest you don't go anywhere near the inside of a watch.

How on earth did you complete your training then?


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