[Vintage Chronograph] Is this watch destined for the graveyard?

[VeracityFirst]

Hello! 

Images attached!

As you see, I have here a 1950-1960's Chronograph using a Landeron 149 movement. Firstly, the good:

The watch keeps good time. It winds up fine. It changes time fine. No problems there at all.

That's where it ends really.

The bad:

* The springbars - they are completely stuck. I cannot for love or money get them to budge. As you can see in the album, I am also concerned that they have been glued in. You might be able to see on the lugs there appears to be some cracking, I am worried that if attempt to remove the springbars any further, the lugs will simply crack and break. Does that seem like something that could happen?

* The caseback - You may be able to see, but it seems to not sit flush to the watch case. I think it has been threaded. How easy is this to resolve? or is this a major problem?

* The chrono function - Hey, guess what, it works...(sometimes!!). The chronograph function works 8/10. I press the top button, and it may or may not start the ticking function. Most of the time it does. It resets on the lower button just fine, regardless of whether the ticker goes or not. 

My overall question is, how beat up is this old boy? I am expecting a big price to get it back to former glory, but I am unsure just how much, if even doable. 

Be great to hear your thoughts on this guys!

[WileyDave]

21 minutes ago, VeracityFirst said:

* The springbars - they are completely stuck. I cannot for love or money get them to budge. As you can see in the album, I am also concerned that they have been glued in. You might be able to see on the lugs there appears to be some cracking, I am worried that if attempt to remove the springbars any further, the lugs will simply crack and break. Does that seem like something that could happen?
 

I have actually cut spring bars, (in the center with a side cutter) that were too crusty to budge using conventional methods. Looks like the one lug is worn clear through, probably why it was glued, too bad.

 

23 minutes ago, VeracityFirst said:

* The caseback - You may be able to see, but it seems to not sit flush to the watch case. I think it has been threaded. How easy is this to resolve? or is this a major problem?
 

If it has been cross threaded as it appears, your case is probably toast, trying and or paying to have rethreaded might not be worth the expense. Another case perhaps? Or best case scenario the back is only threaded on one or two turns.

 

25 minutes ago, VeracityFirst said:

Chronograph using a Landeron 149 movement

How do you know it's a Landeron? I'm not trying to be a wise guy, just curious, from the dial/manufacturer?

 

28 minutes ago, VeracityFirst said:

My overall question is, how beat up is this old boy? I am expecting a big price to get it back to former glory, but I am unsure just how much, if even doable. 

Anything is doable, given the depth of your pockets, I think it might be worth your while, (to find a case) but that's just me, I'm sure you'll get some sound advise here or perhaps even a lead on a new case. The fact that it is running and has partial chrono function is half the battle. Don't just take my word, there are folks here who have forgotten more than I'll ever know!

[Geo]

First things first, welcome to the forum.

Your watch watch is well worth restoration.  

I suspect the spring bars are the female type, these are designed to fit over little stubs permanently fitted to the case, unlike normal ones that fit into holes in the case.

The gap between the back and the case looks like it is caused by a gasket that is too thick.

A good service should cure the chronograph issues.

 

[VeracityFirst]

Thanks for the information so far chaps. I am planning to visit a watchmaker, but I wanted to get 'clued up' before I did.

How do I know it's a Landeron 149? Truth be told, I don't. The seller has informed me it is, but I cannot (and don;t want to right now) open the case back to check.

He did send me images of the movement, which shows the internals - here they are. What do they say to you? I am quite the newbie to this.

 

[WileyDave]

Landeron made several iterations of wind up chronos, l looked at some pics on Ranfft, His example is of a 149 is a French Wakmann but I ran out of time online sorry, have to finish something more pressing.

His comments on the 149 were: "1937-1970, >3.500.000 (all derivatives based on Landeron 48)
There were various chrono mechanisms. And as their parts often were interchangable, occasionally series were produced with parts of different calibres."
 

As Geo said, "Welcome"!

[VeracityFirst]

2 minutes ago, WileyDave said:

Landeron made several iterations of wind up chronos, l looked at some pics on Ranfft, His example is of a 149 is a French Wakmann but I ran out of time online sorry, have to finish something more pressing.

His comments on the 149 were: "1937-1970, >3.500.000 (all derivatives based on Landeron 48)
There were various chrono mechanisms. And as their parts often were interchangable, occasionally series were produced with parts of different calibres."
 

As Geo said, "Welcome"!

Thank you - i've checked out that website you mentioned it looks the same to my untrained eye. Any further comments would be really appreciated. 

[Daveb]

Can't answer any questions I'm afraid but it's a good looking piece, surely worth trying. Good luck.

[RyMoeller]

In my opinion any chronograph is worth restoration provided the dial is in good shape and all the parts are there (and not rusted through).

I agree with Geo on his assessment of the caseback- it looks like the gasket may be too thick.  

Cutting the springbars off is a good idea that I hadn't considered.  I've dealt with many stuck parts in the past and have found that a soak in mild acid (such as vinegar) or hot soapy water followed by a short ultrasonic bath does wonders.  One does have to consider what this would do to the plating before proceeding however.

Good luck with the piece.  It's quite a good looking chrono.

[vinn3]

welcome to the forum.  if the case back  "cross threaded"  it not a big  problem unless its rusted.  i am eager to see the in side,,good show,  vinn

[wls1971]

I would be tempted to source a new case for the watch, its a good example of why plated cases are best avoided, the plating wears on the edges and sharp corners allowing the ingress of sweat from wearing this over time eats away at the brass underneath, looking side on from the crown side I think the badly fitting case back is a symptom of this as the edged of the case appears badly worn, I dont think the case could be improved greatly.

New old stock cases turn up quite regular on Ebay but most sellers want silly money the link below has a site in switzerland that gets quite a few new old stock cases, at reasonable prices

http://swisswatches-andmore.com/shop/index.php

If you do get a replacement case make sure its stainless not gold plated.

 

 

[VeracityFirst]

Thanks for the information everyone. I am taking this to my watch maker today - would anyone like to guess the cost before I update this post?!

With regards to a new case, would something like this work? http://www.swisswatches-andmore.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=980 

Thanks 

 

[bobm12]

Welcome to the forum VF. That is a beautiful movement I certainly would fix. Good wisdom in the previous posts too. The case you propose in the link might or might not work. Check the movement specs and also check with the seller...chronometer cases come in many dimensions and shapes (distribution and location of pushers, etc) considering the many options made.

Cheers,

Bob

[WileyDave]

15 hours ago, VeracityFirst said:

Thanks for the information so far chaps. I am planning to visit a watchmaker, but I wanted to get 'clued up' before I did.

How do I know it's a Landeron 149? Truth be told, I don't. The seller has informed me it is, but I cannot (and don;t want to right now) open the case back to check.

He did send me images of the movement, which shows the internals - here they are. What do they say to you? I am quite the newbie to this.

 

I can clearly see the numbers "49" in first pic, next to the balance cock. Also I noticed the case seems to be awfully thin around the crown and chrono buttons, perhaps this is why the gasket looked to be too big as Geo mentioned.  As far as the case you located, I'd ask your watchmaker, he should be able to advise based on movement/case measurements. I won't hazard a guess on $$$ for service or restoration, good luck and let us know what happens.

[VeracityFirst]

Good evening gents!

i am back from having discussions with no less than four watchmakers I know of. One I use regularly. As promised, I wanted to update you!

they are all confident of repair. Diagnosis is good for the movement, each saying it of course needs a clean and some fixing up. This is booked in, costing me £250, or around $330 - including required replacement parts. 

The case: its eroded as many of you identified. There is a mixed response on this issue, some said they can repair it, others said they need to source a new one. I am opting for the new one, and will do so after the movement repair. £30-£70 for this.

The springbars are ruined. There isn't any glue, all agreed it was simply age and poor attempts to remove throughout its history. The lugs are close to breaking, they all know a specialists who can repair them. But it is cheaper for a new case. If I fail to source one, then I'll explore this avenue.

They all confirmed it is indeed a Landeron 149 movement. Phew. 

All in all, this will cost me around £350-£500. I am staging out these costs.

Thanks for your help everyone, you've been so great! I'll update you all in the next few months!

VF

 

 

 

 

 

[GeorgeClarkson]

That is expensive actually, but i Knie the amount of work behind these Landeron movement, having fixed a few myself. IG you go for the new case, let me know if I can have the old one