Winding Predicament

[Invicta2]

Invicta - "Automatic, Professional, 660'- 200M Water Resistant" Model # 9937

 

Watch is about a year & ½ old, from Amazon.  I like it.  Never submerged, not even in the shower.  I suspect the automatic movement device was not working properly from the beginning, i.e. there were times when I was wearing it, with movement, and it still needed to be manually wound to function.

 

Did I overwind it one time?  Maybe.  Watch still keeps good time; however, when winding it there is a process now:  of course, unwind the crown for winding,

then wind.  Sometimes it will "catch" & wind a little & then it goes into a ratchet (sounding) mode. i.e. it's missing & not winding.

Then if I shake the watch in a 1' arc I can hear a spinning noise which I imagine to be the automatic movement device spinning around, and then wind--->

sometimes I can wind some more--- sometimes not.  If not, then I shake it a few more times until I can.  Watch will then keep time for another 4 - 8 hours.

 

I saw the video by the gentleman who started this site and was fascinated & impressed!

 

To repair my watch I know I would have to invest in tools, but guidance for the know-how is my predicament.

 

If anyone can give advice, I would be appreciative.

Many thanks,

Invicta2

[Geo]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Regarding your watch problem, it does sound like there is a mechanical issue. Without having the watch open and in front of me it hard to say exactly what the problem is. It sounds like it may have more than one problem. Possibly issues with the winding pinion and clutch, main spring/lubricant and maybe the click spring.

If an automatic watch is in good health, you cannot damage it by over winding as the main spring is designed to slip in the barrel when it is fully wound. If it it is need of a service and lubrication, you could possibly cause damage, especially if you wind too quickly.

If you must wind an automatic watch, always do it more gently than if it was a manual wind. Not all automatics can be manually wound, especially some Seikos.

[Invicta2]

Thanks, Geo, for your reply!  

I saw a Seiko for sale at COSTCO… perhaps it's a better watch than Invicta.  Mine says on it "Swiss Movement".

 

Well, it stopped over night at 6:20 a.m. (EasternST) Just gave it a few shakes & the second hand activated.

 

I was considering buying an "Excelvan® 36 PC Watch Repair Tool Kit Set" & a "SE MH1047L … Magnifier.

I could open the watch (pry?) & take a photo, but from there on I'd be guessing.

 

I wonder if there are any videos that go through the process of "educating" (taking apart - putting together) on my specific Invicta?

Gosh, & there are different oils/grease for different parts.  I know nothing.

 

Perhaps I should leave it alone & be thankful it still works, although a little fussy on length of accurate time!

 

Thanks, again, Geo.  I like your photo.  Have relatives from Ireland.  Not sure on Scotland.  Great-grandpa named his place "Scrogie".

Stephen

[bobm12]

Hi Stephen, I believe the movement in your watch is the SW 200 (Stellita) which is equivalent to the ETA 2824-2. Since these two movements are identical you can go to either the ETA or Stellita website and download the technical manual (wherever available, I haven't checked which). Also there should be a video on servicing them here or in the web (ETA 2836-2 is in the same family and very similar although it adds the day complication). That's as far as the how to.

 

I warn you that if you have never tinkered with a watch movement it can be very bad for the watch...Well, we all have to start somewhere I guess. In USA, if you screw any part of your watch, you can order any of those parts from Otto Frei, they have those by the dozen I think but they are expensive (a balance wheel assembly without the cock $40!). So by the time you have your watch going again, you might have paid 3 times its price in parts!

 

As an aside, I believe there is a twin to your watch from Invicta that is 1/5 of the price because it uses an automatic Seiko movement: Invicta Model 8926. This movement (NH35A) hacks and  winds just like the Swiss made but with less BPMs (28000 vs 21000). I don't know if Frei stocks parts for it in case this gives you any ideas. Since your watch is about 1 - 2 years old, those movements may have been updated from my source which dates back to 2003/5 (originally these models had an ETA 2824 and a Miyota 8215 I believe).

Robert

[Invicta2]

Hi Robert,

 

Thank you so much for your information!  No, I have never tinkered with a watch.  I confess I don't even know what a BPM is.  It may be time to read one of the books recommended on this site (which I am, too, so unfamiliar with… e.g. how does one add a photo in replying to a topic?  How did I get that cactus photo to Geo?)

 

I am fairly sure if I took it to a repair shop---- I'd be better off just buying a new one.  I am annoyed that it is malfunctioning.  I did not mistreat it.

After wearing it for a few days (when it was new) I had the unwelcome suspicion that the self-winding mechanism was not working properly.

 

So now it is time to research ETA & Stellita, but 1st I'm looking up BPM!

Be well,

Stephen

[bobm12]

No need Stephen, BPM = beats per minute. The higher this rate the more precise the watch with needs of higher tolerances, etc. All in all, past the 28000 bpm I understand it requires a lot more care in the finish of parts, fit, etc.

 

But the books and tech manuals for the movements in questions are a must I believe. Also the right tools (don't skimp in a --make it 2 -- pair of tweezers). It shouldn't be too hard after a couple of watches I guess, so don't get discouraged if your first attempt is not what you expect. We all regularly lose, break or otherwise thoroughly mangle parts. It is part of the hobby! If I ever need to fix my wife omega -- not mine though -- and get really desperate with the small parts I have a cheap $3 quartz movement in reserve and a 20 lb hammer in reserve! :) 'will be interesting... :devil:

[Invicta2]

Robert, it wasn't too long before I found beats per minute, but thank you again for your input.  Book/s so I can find out the good tools to get (not to mention what to do with them!), oils, grease, and a practice watch.  I like this watch and have realized today that I should not open it up with my zero level of experience.  Maybe eBay has some inexpensive, broken 9937s--- maybe not.

 

2 pair of tweezers!?  Different sizes? Back up? Or 1 for each hand?  (Over the years I've practiced using my left hand for delicate work also.)

 

I found one of (Mr. [a master]) Mark's videos on how to service an ETA 2824.  Also, went to Sellita & found great pdf on parts, but no explanatory videos.

Video is a youtube with 159 likes & 3 dislikes out of 18,577 views.

I don't understand those 3 fussy people.

[bobm12]

Well, to be honest, I'm partial for #5 pattern on the tweezers, but #2 is used for general watch work. They are stronger vs. #5's finer tips. Some people keep at least 2 of the same size (I haven't found the need for this) but they still have a finer/thicker tipped one depending on the case plus definitely a real thin one (#4?) to work on balance springs (you won't be needing it at first). Also, never drop them or you will be buying more! In any case, I found that cheap tweezers will help you lose and damage parts therefore I went all the way to Dumont tweezers. I'm yet to try their most expensive model "Dumostar", but the traditional watchmaker ones -- "Dumoxel" -- are just fine and better on the wallet.

 

I also use both hands indistinctly but it is not necessary. I think that while I was getting used to work on minute stuff it was more a curse than a blessing since I had to train both hands so I lost/mangled twice as many parts so to speak. I highly recommend Mark's videos they are spot on!

 

Don't worry about the fuzzy people, they are just that, fuzzy. You can also check the Time Zone School of Watchmaking which is a fancy name for some online training and is only $75 per class (3 total, no expiration) and you don't really need to buy the equipment they recommend for it (but they give your good tips about it). Of course, like everything nowadays, attached to those classes is Otto Frei who has a watchmaker supply's business and is the official material supplier for the courses. Since the courses are inherently Swiss school, you'll be fine working with your SW200. That, internet circles like this one and Mark's videos should get you going nicely.

 

Robert

[Invicta2]

Robert,

 

Tweezer question fully answered!  Thank you.

 

Online training sounds good.  The school you mentioned: if I understand correctly has 3 different sessions and once you've paid for them you can review them anytime you like.

 

Right now I'm watching about a SW200 ratchet wheel driving wheel (broken).  I think I also need to view 'how to use & maintain your automatic watch'.

Can you really put a $3 quartz movement in an omega!  My father would tell me my sense of humor needs development.  Now a 20lb. hammer--- that's some serious heft!

[bobm12]

Stephen,

 

It is just that sometimes those small parts can get to you and the solution is either walk away, cool down and count to 10 then go back and try again...or the hammer! The smaller the watch the bigger the challenge. I took apart the anti shock from a 7S26 plate and I'm still trying to find one of the jewels. It just jumped into nowhere when I was about to reassemble it.

 

Which raises the question for all who read this conversation: Is there a tool -- or procedure -- to work that anti shock spring back in place?

 

In any case, if you come into some related videos, please let me know the link.

 

Robert