Greetings folks. I've been working on watches as a hobby for about 20 years now. I started out on pocket watches and have never cleaned a clock. In fact, I had a great cleaning machine, with the big jars, and a few other clock tools, that I gave away to an aspiring clock guy over at the Tascione site. But I digress...
Nearly 20 years ago I bought a Hamilton model 21 ship's chronometer. It's an early one, pre 400 serial number, and is a thing of beauty, as these generally are. Back when I got it, I had a professional service it for me. It was done well, but wasn't cheap. $400-500, IIRC. I used to display it in my living room and run it occasionally just to hear the escapement and marvel it its accuracy. From about 2009 to 2014 it sat in my storage unit, waiting for new digs. In 2014 I wound it up and it took off running. I let it run down and then put it away for a couple of years. When I pulled it out, I discovered that it had a broken balance pivot. While originally I thought someone had knocked it over and wasn't copping to it, but now, after inspecting the upper pivot's wear, I don't think that's the case.
After botching the first staff I got trying to replace the hub, I set it aside again for the past couple of years. The way I broke the staff was I overestimated how deep the hollowness went in my hollow punch that I was using to tap it on. It bottomed out in the punch and destroyed the pivot.
Now that I'm finally over that disappointment, I decided to give it another go. I bought a staff that already had the hub installed. I may have to polish the lower pivot, as it doesn't seem to want to set in the hole jewel properly. I'm in the process of verifying all of this. I had to tear down the chronometer at least to the point where I could check to see if the broken part of the pivot was impeding the staff from setting properly. The hole jewel is clear.
I'm doing the best I can to do it right, and get it running again. I won't be running it, but want it running just in case I should decide to sell it. Otherwise the value drops quite a bit. Since I have it completely torn down now, I might as well clean and oil it. Does anyone have a hot tip on the best cleaning solutions for cleaning these chronometers? I'd like to use something that will cross over and work for my cleaning of watches as well. I have both an ultrasonic and the small L&R mechanical. I have one more fresh batch of cleaner and rinse, petroleum, no-water, formula. Should I use that, or make, or get, something new? Any tips for oil and grease types to get me by? Any suggestions are appreciated.
I do have the Manual for the movement.
I know that this is risky business, my working on this chrono, but I just can't afford to spend another $500 to get it running. Plus, I heard that if you're going to run these, you've got to spend this $500 or so to service them every few years. That is not going to happen. Feedback, suggestions, warnings, tips, etc., are all welcome. Many thanks. Cheers.
I have recently purchased a National, Electric Watch Cleaning Machine. Attached is a photo for reference and identification of the model type. As can be seen, it has a fairly typical design, reminiscent of many other types, particularly Elma Super Elite. In fact, I do wonder which came first - the National or the Elma. My musings on this point later.
This is a very old machine, circa late 1940’s, 1950’s, but they seem to turn up sometimes on eBay, in various conditions ranging from the “beyond hope” and only really suitable as a donor for parts, and the “old but serviceable” and might-be-worth-a-punt-on machines.
This one fell into the middle somewhere, as it was a bit tatty and the heating element did not work. On the plus side, it had all its original cleaning fluid jars and lids, and the motor and speed control gave smooth, controllable spinning and no play in the bearings. I went to visit the seller to inspect it and we did a deal on the spot. This is not always possible on eBay, but as the seller had listed it as for collection only (due to its weight), it was a possibility on this occasion.
Once I had it home and gave it the once over, I decided that I would have to either do without heating for the drying stage, or find a replacement element. At the same time, it was very obvious that all of the original cabling was not safe to leave in place and it would all have to be removed and replaced. Any other electrical parts deemed unsafe would also be replaced as I inspected them. So - the idea of a restoration (of sorts) was born.
Now - it is not my intention to restore it to the point where it could pass current electrical safety standards, but I will be making it as safe as possible, without losing any of the essential character of the original machine. This is not going to be for resale, so being safe to use is an acceptable compromise, in my opinion. I will however, perform testing on it once the electrical work is done, to make sure that the essential aspects of earth leakage, earth bonds and polarity etc. are passed. (PAT Testing included.)
Whilst this is not likely to turn into another example of a superb restoration of an Elma Super Elite (as seen elsewhere on these forums), I hope at least to have at the end of it, a perfectly serviceable watch cleaning machine, and a restoration story - of sorts - of a vintage piece of English watch making and servicing machinery.
So first off - the before pictures. This one is a good view of the machine and its cosmetic condition, as purchased. The base is a heavy, cast alloy jobbie, with its original crackle paint job beginning to flake away in places, where the years of cleaning chemicals have attacked it, but generally sound. The jars still had residues of cleaning and rinse chemicals present. The first wash jar (front left), was particularly grotty and can’t have been cleaned for years. Fairly ironic not to clean the thing, that cleans the things! Maybe it was just left unused and unloved for many years.
The mains cable was a cloth-bound type I have not seen in years and could well have been original as it still had the old UK wiring standard colours of red/black/green. Also adding to the vintage-ness, was a very old, Bakelite three pin plug. This must have been one of the first of its type as I have not seen one in brown Bakelite before! (And I am 62...)
Anyway, that’s enough for now, as I’m not even sure anyone wants to read much about such an old machine. If anyone is interested though, please add comments and I’ll add to the story as I make progress.
At the very least, I hope I have found a potential solution to finding/ making your own heating elements for these old machines, which could also include providing replacements for Elma Super Elite, RM80/90 HCS511 etc. Machines. More details later...
Hello, I could not fint any answer to this on any other thread.
Im using Isopropyl alcohol for the last step of hand cleaning movements. However i can not find a good way to throw used liquid away. How do you do it, I know that the liquid will turn into gas eventually however since i fill a small jar there is always going to come times when i need to throw it away. Where do i throw it?
How do you do it?
Thanks in advance, Jakob
Hi to you all,
I was wondering, if you use a regular ultrasonic instead of a watch cleaning machine. How would you rinse your parts? And how many times? In which solutions?
I always cleaned my parts in the ultra sonic with a solution and rinsed the parts in benzine( that's the way an old watchmaker learned me) but i've found out that very often this does not give me the results i was hoping for. Can I perhaps get little jars with a rinse solution and run those in the ultra sonic?
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Just noticed that Mark Lovick uses thin oil (Moebius 9010) for the 3rd wheel in his ETA 2824-2 service video (@8:58). This goes against the recommendation of the ETA technical sheet for the 2824-2, but I believe he does so for a reason. If you read this Mark your comment would be appreciated! While on the topic; what would the effect of using a thick oil be when applied to a pivot where we'd usually apply a thin oil, such as the escape wheel?
Just to update: I got about a tablespoon of shellac flakes from my BHI DLC assessor, and they work great. I just put a tiny chip of it on top of the pallet, heat it until it becomes semi-fluid and spread it to the right places with a sharpened oiler. Then heat a bit more so that it flows out nicely. I think one tablespoon will fix a lifetime of pallets.. All the other shellacs I have I'll use for cementing workpieces etc. Cheers! Rob
There's several editions of the Rolls Razor. I have one myself. The one in your pic, given the case, is probably the Silver Edition of the Imperial 2 Rolls Razor. Ones without the case were nickel. And there's several other editions as mentioned. How you tell them apart is the exterior design on the metal case. Personally, I like the Rolls. And there's some interesting facts about the company and the owner. The owner, even after the company folded took all the inventory he had of the Rolls and up till it ran out or he passed away (I can't remember which) he honored the warranty and you could buy blades and replacement parts from him. Just by writing to him in England somewhere. I heard great things about him online. Not something you see from many, especially after the company folds. You can get the blades rehoned true. A couple places do it and one offers new blades they themselves make for them. Practice on a balloon.. I did. Lol. A fresh open blade on that thing.. it'll make you nervous bringing it to you face the first time. There's a video of a guy on YouTube of a guys first time with the Rolls and what he thought of the shave.. He liked it from what I remember. Felt it was as close as he was getting from other blades he tried. So.. I "saw" a very interesting 7 day set at the antique shop where i bought my Rolls. I've never seen another like it. I don't know who made it, maybe you do. It was a complete valay(sp?) of wood, dark in color. It included the brush, cup and a rack which held 7 razors, each marked for the day of the week. The rack which was metal, and all the razors where gold plated. Or gold... I wasn't allowed to touch it but he did show it to me. Price tag was up there, I remember that. Way up there. He had it in its own display case right next to his desk. The handles and razor rack where all scrolled and fancy. It sure was pretty... Like a Rolls, as far as the blades, but definitely not a Rolls. Ever seen one like it?