Jump to content

Watch Cannot Be Put Into Beat

omgiv

By omgiv
in Watch Repairs Help & Advice

 Share

Recommended Posts

omgiv WRT Addict

omgiv

Posted
Posted

Hey Guys,

I have a watch currently on my bench that I have had a heck of a time with.  When I first got it, the amplitude was barely 180 degrees in the flat positions and I noticed that the end shake of the escape wheel and balance were way too big.  To the point that the escape wheel was almost out of the jewel in dial up position.

 

The watch is one of those Asian clones and I have a feeling that the answer to my question will lie there.  After adjusting the end shakes and adjusting a couple of other things, the amplitude is almost acceptable.  The movement is pretty dirty so I am hoping that will improve more with a good cleaning.  The problem is I cannot get the movement in beat.  I have spent a huge amount of time with my timing machine trying to figure out what is happening but it will not get into beat no matter how Inmove the stud holder.

Have any of you run across this before or have any recommendations as to what to check?  Thanks in advance!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
omgiv WRT Addict

omgiv

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thank you for the replies.  It is very strange indeed and the first time this has ever happened.  I took the advice given and took it apart and cleaned it.  I will start the reassembly process when I get some time.  While disassembling, I didn't notice anything that was glaringly obvious.  I checked to make sure the pallets were secured to the fork as well as both the roller jewel and roller to the balance.  I thought that it might be my timer so I threw on another movement and it was just fine.  

 

This is one of those 3135 clone movements.  They are very, very, very poorly finished.  I will see if I can get  picture.  Thanks! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
clockboy Distinguished Member

clockboy

Posted
Posted

As you state strange. When you move the regulator arm what you are doing in effect is to move the hairspring position which in turn moves the position of the roller jewel. I would remove the pallet folk & assembly and inspect with good magnification to see if roller jewel is in the middle of the banking pins and if it,s position moves when you move the regulator arm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
clockboy Distinguished Member

clockboy

Posted
Posted

I do not mean the stud. Absolute dead in beat is when the roller jewel is absolutely in the middle IE when the watch is running it moves exactly the same amount in both directions. This is what you need to check & check that when you move the regulator arm the jewel is moving either clockwise or anti clockwise. If when you move the regulator arm this does not happen then the roller jewel/balance staff is loose or the hairspring is moving in it,s end stud.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
omgiv WRT Addict

omgiv

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

I know what being in beat is and in my experience moving the stud is what moves the position of the roller jewel.  The regulator is used to change the effective length of the hairspring to either speed up or slow down the movement.  Perhaps we are using different terminology?

 

I do appreciate the help though.

Edited by omgiv
Link to comment
Share on other sites
omgiv WRT Addict

omgiv

Posted
  • Author
Posted

The movement has been cleaned but I haven't had the time to reassemble yet.  I will post some pictures of the timer once I do.

Before I cleaned it, the amplitude was around 255-260 in the flat positions.  I am wondering if there could be extraneous noise throwing off the timer.  If that were the case though, wouldn't it also be throwing off the rate and amplitude readings?

Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jdm Distinguished Member

jdm

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, omgiv said:

The movement has been cleaned but I haven't had the time to reassemble yet.  I will post some pictures of the timer once I do.

If it's still in parts how you can say it can't be regulated?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
omgiv WRT Addict

omgiv

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I'm not following.  I am saying that once I start the reassembly I will double check that moving the stud holder does indeed move the position of the balance in relation to the fork position.  I will also see what the trace looks like on the timer once it has been reassembled and oiled and take some pictures of it is not better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jdm Distinguished Member

jdm

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, omgiv said:

I'm not following.  I am saying that once I start the reassembly I will double check that moving the stud holder does indeed move the position of the balance in relation to the fork position.  I will also see what the trace looks like on the timer once it has been reassembled and oiled and take some pictures of it is not better.

I'm only saying that you should wait to have it reassembled and running before saying that it can't be put in beat as per thread title.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
omgiv WRT Addict

omgiv

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hey Guys,

 

Sorry I haven't posted before now.  It has been a busy week.  After cleaning it and reassembling the movement, it was still presenting with the same issue.  I removed the pallet fork and moved the stud holder to ensure that the roller jewel was indeed moving.  It was.  Then as I was playing with it on my timer, I happened to press down on the balance jewels and it miraculously started running in beat.  I slightly bent the shock spring to apply more pressure and that seemed to have help.  Anyway, thought I would share the answer to a very strange situation.  Thanks again for all of the help and ideas.

1.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jdm Distinguished Member

jdm

Posted
Posted

No it's not strange. Something is not alogned or the end shake is incorrect, when you press somewhere you temporarily brings things into a batter condition. It happened to me too with Seiko but I wouldn't then know what to do to fix things permanently.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
omgiv WRT Addict

omgiv

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Well, it is strange for me.  That is the first time I have even had to "adjust" a shock spring. The brass used for the springs seem very weak and they are pretty easy to distort.  The the end shake on the balance is good.  I ended up having to adjust a good bit of the movement to make it right (escape, pallet, and balance end shake).  The hole for the cap jewel could be a hair too big for the balance staff, but that is all that I saw out of the ordinary. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jdm Distinguished Member

jdm

Posted
Posted

Very good then. Remember you're working on a movement produced with cheapness being the first objective. Nor surprise that tolerances are poor and materials are dodgy. That's  the reason why practically no watchmaker wants to work on them, results are unpredictable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Geo Distinguished Member

Geo

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, jdm said:

Thanks for the picture BTW. I never thought of placing the movement with the holder on the timegrapher!

It's sometimes the only way when working with small movements.  I've also used the "movement holder" as a case holder for holding small cocktail watches in the timegrapher. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing


  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • mikepilk
      Setting lever spring

      By mikepilk · Posted

      The stress is the force (on the spring) x distance. The maximum stress is at the bottom, and decreases up the arm. That's why they always break at the bottom. I used a round file, then something like 2000 grit to finish. I gave the rest of the arm a quick polish - no need for a perfect finish. Just make sure there are no 'notches' left from cutting/filing. The notches act like the perforations in your toilet paper 🤣
    • Geotex
      Any tips to correct a sloppy error?

      By Geotex · Posted

      It's probably a cardinal rule for watch repair to never get distracted while at the bench. Yesterday, after finishing a tricky mainspring winding/barrel insertion (I didn't have a winder and arbor that fit very well) I mentally shifted down a gear once that hurdle was passed. There were other things going on in the room as I put the barrel and cover into the barrel closer and pressed to get that satisfying snap. But when I took it out I realized I never placed the arbor.  When opening a barrel, we are relying on the arbor to transfer a concentrically-distributed force right where it is needed at the internal center of the lid. However, when that isn't present it's difficult to apply pressure or get leverage considering the recessed position of the lid, the small holes in the barrel and the presence of the mainspring coils. It was a beat-up practice movement so I didn't take a lot of time to think it over and I pushed it out using a short right-angle dental probe placed in from the bottom, but that did leave a bit of a scratch and crease in the thin lid. I had also thought about pulling it using a course-threaded screw with a minor thread diameter smaller than the lid hole and a major diameter larger, but that may have done some damage as well.  Thinking about how this might have been handled had it been a more valuable movement, is there a method using watchmaking or other tools that should extract the lid with the least damage? 
    • Neverenoughwatches
      Epilame / Fixodrop

      By Neverenoughwatches · Posted

      🤔 what happens if lubrication is placed directly on top of epilame ? Making a small groove so the lubrication doesn't spread across the component but what if when lubing a little overspills and sits on the epilame .
    • Neverenoughwatches
      Setting lever spring

      By Neverenoughwatches · Posted

      Why just the bottom mike ? Is it worth polishing the whole arm ?
    • mikepilk
      Setting lever spring

      By mikepilk · Posted

      The one thing I took time over was to round and polish the curves at the bottom of the jumper arm. The slightest mark (left over from cutting of filing) acts as a stress raiser, just where you don't need it. 
×
×
  • Create New...