Possibly stupid beginner question...

[Pip]

... but it's been bugging me. I've completely disassembled a Seiko (6119-7000) and am about to set about cleaning and oiling. My question is when I get to putting the hands back on, how do I know where to set them?

Apologies if I'm being really thick but the pinion they go on is round I think so in theory I could put them anywhere?

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[vinn3]

welcome to the forum.   put the hour hand and the minute hand pointing at the same number,  like 12

[Cad101]

Hello remember to turn the crown in the hand setting position and advance the time so that the date just jumps to the next day then set your hour and minute hands at twelve you don't want the date to be changing at 3 in the afternoon.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Cad101

[Marc]

2 minutes ago, vinn3 said:

welcome to the forum.   put the hour hand and the minute hand pointing at the same number,  like 12

12 is actually the only number that you can have both hands pointing at simultaneously and have the correct relationship between hour and minute hands.

First of all you need to advance the time (as if the hands were already installed) until the day/date just changes. The idea is to stop at the instant the day/date changes so if the 6119 has instantaneous date change (I can't remember off hand) you might need to have a couple of goes to get it just right. If it is a progressive change then things are a little more forgiving.

Date change happens at midnight so if you stop advancing the crown at that instant and install the hour and minute hands to read midnight they will be correct.

The seconds hand can be installed anywhere as it runs independently of the setting works.

[Cad101]

Whoops forgot to say hello so HELLO 

[Geo]

The first thing you'll have to do with your watch is to turn the movement with the stem in the setting position until the day just trips. Now very carefully fit the hands in the twelve o'clock position.  This will ensure that the day is synchronised to change at the correct time.

[Cad101]

 Marc great minds think alike and for once I bet Geo to the answer he must be asleep 

[Marc]

2 minutes ago, Cad101 said:

Whoops forgot to say hello so HELLO 

Ditto... Where are my manners!!

Hello Pip and welcome.

[Pip]

12 is actually the only number that you can have both hands pointing at simultaneously and have the correct relationship between hour and minute hands.

First of all you need to advance the time (as if the hands were already installed) until the day/date just changes. The idea is to stop at the instant the day/date changes so if the 6119 has instantaneous date change (I can't remember off hand) you might need to have a couple of goes to get it just right. If it is a progressive change then things are a little more forgiving.

Date change happens at midnight so if you stop advancing the crown at that instant and install the hour and minute hands to read midnight they will be correct.

The seconds hand can be installed anywhere as it runs independently of the setting works.

Ah, so advance the crown until I see the date move and then align at 12. It just seems a bit hit and miss. I suppose I just expected there to be a simpler way to align to midnight, in the way you reassembled for example. I'll get used to this stuff and I should probably subscribe to Mark's videos.[emoji990]


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[Cad101]

Ohh there you are Geo 

[parmenion31]

first of all its a very reasonable question , not stupid, and as cad said turn the crown in the hand setting position and advance , as soon as date disc moves to next number, push back in the crown and set both hands on 12.

in that way you are certain that the date will change at 12 o clock

[Geo]

3 minutes ago, Cad101 said:

Ohh there you are Geo 

I'm waaaay too slow at typing! 

[parmenion31]

Also be carefull hands wont touch each other as they turn , and the second hand not to be too high because might be slow down by the glass when you fit the movement in the case.

[Pip]

Thanks all for the succinct answers, I think I understand now (which is normally about the point where I muck it up!) and thank you for the welcomes. I've really enjoyed so far taking a non worker apart (that a high st watch repair shop said was a no go) even though I've spent more on tools than the watch is worth. I've even enjoyed the hours on t'internet finding parts lists and diagrams, and printing them out in A3 so I can read them. Putting it back together is a bit daunting but I know I'll be really happy when I get it working.


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[WileyDave]

Pip, welcome to the watch repair community, I recently finished a 7006 Seiko and as you can see from pics, I still have some hand work to do, also I have found by examining hand location at eye level, (looking across dial while rotating stem helps me see the hand clearance), keep trying!!!, like most of the operations of disassembly/reassembly, it takes a deft touch to get it right.

In my over enthusiasm to complete assembly, you can see where I messed up, I never had hands properly fitted, my inexperience is showing! But in my defense, I don't do this every day and the thought process sometimes escapes me.

[WileyDave]

now it's correct(ed) and back on wrist

[vinn3]

the day and date watch  settings related to hand position are a total different story,  in fact,  i don't think - D. le Carles  book mentions it.   vinn

[Pip]

Pip, welcome to the watch repair community, I recently finished a 7006 Seiko and as you can see from pics, I still have some hand work to do, also I have found by examining hand location at eye level, (looking across dial while rotating stem helps me see the hand clearance), keep trying!!!, like most of the operations of disassembly/reassembly, it takes a deft touch to get it right.

In my over enthusiasm to complete assembly, you can see where I messed up, I never had hands properly fitted, my inexperience is showing! But in my defense, I don't do this every day and the thought process sometimes escapes me.

I'm not experienced enough to spot it. Are you saying work to do as they don't quite hit the mark and line up at 12 o'clock?


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[Pip]

now it's correct(ed) and back on wrist

Wow that looks great, you must be really pleased.


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[swordfish]

Pip, my advice is a variation on the advice offered by the others, but may be more suitable for a beginner. It's more difficult to set the minute hand at twelve when the hour hand is already set there. So I advise that you turn the stem (with hands not yet set into place) slowly until the very moment that the date advances. Then place the hour hand at twelve. Then continue turning the stem until the hour hand points to 3 or 9. With the hour hand pointing as exactly as possible to 3 or 9, set the minute hand at twelve. The downside of this approach is that you may not have both hands PERFECTLY aligned at 12 o' clock. But the upside is that there is less risk of misaligning the hour hand toward the dial or up into the minute hand this way.

Why 3 or 9, but not 6? Because in tilting the minute hand up or down to be perpendicular to its post, any inadvertent pressure on the hour hand is ,likely to be rotational along its long axis, rather then tipping it up or down, as might occur when the two hands are 180 degrees apart.


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[Pip]

Thanks Swordfish, may well try this technique.


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[vinn3]

my opinion is that "day and date"  watches are more trouble than their worth.,now, if you are selling those watches,  be shure to mention if  day and date is working.  vinn

[Pip]

my opinion is that "day and date"  watches are more trouble than their worth.,now, if you are selling those watches,  be shure to mention if  day and date is working.  vinn

Really? Do you mean in general or just servicing?



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[khergert]

Pip, that was a good question and answered professionally.  You need many basic skills from start to finish; and then repetition. Some high end jewelers should ask your exact question.  You will fix whatever costumers bring to you.  Complications are part of the job.  

[bobm12]

Hi Pip,

My take on this: Everything said here is good advise and the fundamental way to do it. Me, this is what I do after the hour hand hand is already pointing at 12 and properly "installed" (day on the brink of moving to the other number, etc, as already explained by everyone)...I check for clearances, etc, you can turn them one full revolution to see if they are perfectly level and with the proper clearance respect to the dial and other stuff that may be present...don't forget that some day-date windows are framed and therefore protrude from the actual dial, or markers might be in the way of the hour hand as it moves. Then I move the hand back to the 12 o'clock. Next, I lightly present the minutes hand on top. Just enough for it to be "steady" on its "perch". Then, gently, I move the minute hand until it is perfectly aligned with the hour hand (both pointing, perfectly to 12 o'clock). Minute hand should not be "binding" or "set" on its pivot otherwise you won't be able to move it without messing something up... it is just "sitting" on top. When everything is lined up perfectly then you press it home...and always check for clearance... not just between hands and/or dial stuff, but making sure you are not too high either on the pivots so the seconds hand will have also clearance when its turn comes to be fitted.

For the seconds hand, I usually choose it to point either to 3 or 9 making sure it is right on the marker...It might not be of importance on some watches but some others may tick in such a way that if your seconds hand is not properly aligned they will miss the seconds division mark on the dial....to me it is annoying so I do with every single watch out of peace of mind and obsessive compulsive nature....but that last bit is more for the Psychology forum!

Cheer,

Bob