Any one know of the UNITAS 34 ?

[Petersas]

Hi, i have a pocket watch- UNITAS 34- RSP this is the calibre that i have found it to be through bestfit encyclopedia  movement identification and i have broken off the screw that attaches the winding wheel to the barrel arbor, i have tried to get the screw bit out of the barrel arbor but can't so i am trying to get a new arbor but it seems that the part is obsolete/discontinued  when i try to buy from  Cousinsuk  Can anyone suggest a possible alternative suppler ?  Thank you in advance.

[szbalogh]

Seems to me like a Unitas 6498. I can imagine that they use the same sized ratchet wheel screw and arbor. Try to save the arbor and then YOu need only a replacement screw. The winding wheel is usually the one closer to the crown, hence called crown wheel. The one with the barrel arbor is called the ratchet wheel. Make sure which one, since those have different way threads.

[Petersas]

Hi szbalogh, I did order a unitas 29 arbor thinking it would be the same, but no luck the hight is too big the one i'm after is 5.50mm high, i don't want to buy unless its the right one, 

I will put up some photos of the keyles works, and of the arbor

Thank you sir.

[Petersas]

[Petersas]

The pocket watch is a 19 size. there is no info on the movement

[Petersas]

39 minutes ago, Petersas said:

The pocket watch is a 19 size. there is no info on the movement

 

40 minutes ago, Petersas said:

The pocket watch is a 19 size. there is no info on the movement

calibre that i have found it to be through bestfit encyclopedia  movement identification could be unitas 362-rsp

[JohnR725]

First you have to figure out what you're looking for? The link below has both the 362 and 34 caliber noticed there different thicknesses?

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Unitas_34

[szbalogh]

I would try to save the arbor first. You can lose nothing with the attempt.

First, simply tap a bit on the screw with a same sized flat punch, this can loosen the threads. Then mount the piece in a lathe and turn it slowly backwards and try to grab the screw with a graver, hopefully it could be twisted out. It should have a normal thread.

Next, try to cut a slot in the rest of the screw or through the end of the arbor with a sharp graver and try to screw it out.

Finally, one can drill the screw (size is preferably 80% of the thread). With this the thread in the arbor leaves untouched and the reast of the screw could be scratched out. Or just drill the whole screw out and cut a new thread.

[bobm12]

The screw seems to be a little bit out...I can't be sure but that's how it shows on my screen. There is a "thread loosening" fluid you can immerse the arbor in after cutting a slot in the protruding part of the screw (for your screwdriver to grab) as szbalogh said. After a couple of hours try and unscrew it.

Some people use Vissin but I have no experience using it...and there is always the Alum method but I don't think it will work here.

Cheers,

Bob

[Petersas]

10 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

First you have to figure out what you're looking for? The link below has both the 362 and 34 caliber noticed there different thicknesses?

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Unitas_34

 

10 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

First you have to figure out what you're looking for? The link below has both the 362 and 34 caliber noticed there different thicknesses?

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Unitas_34

Thank you JohnR725 this is great information, I notice the movements are all left setting parts, will this have issues with the barrel arbor ? Thank you for your help sir.

[Petersas]

8 hours ago, szbalogh said:

I would try to save the arbor first. You can lose nothing with the attempt.

First, simply tap a bit on the screw with a same sized flat punch, this can loosen the threads. Then mount the piece in a lathe and turn it slowly backwards and try to grab the screw with a graver, hopefully it could be twisted out. It should have a normal thread.

Next, try to cut a slot in the rest of the screw or through the end of the arbor with a sharp graver and try to screw it out.

Finally, one can drill the screw (size is preferably 80% of the thread). With this the thread in the arbor leaves untouched and the reast of the screw could be scratched out. Or just drill the whole screw out and cut a new thread.

Thank you szbalogh, that is great advice, I have tried all except the drilling, unfortunately what is left of the screw is at a depth of about 1mm and is conical shaped to a point "from me with the old tweezers" 

Would be great if i could just buy a new arbor, If only it was that easy !

Thank's again for your help sir.

[Petersas]

36 minutes ago, Petersas said:

 

Thank you JohnR725 this is great information, I notice the movements are all left setting parts, will this have issues with the barrel arbor ? Thank you for your help sir.

Hi John, from the dater sheet you kindly posted it looks like my movement is more like the 231: open faced, i have been on my suppliers and they have it in stock but no way of choosing  left or right setting parts ! could this be a problem ? will the arbors be the same ? 

Thank you, I am very grateful for your help. 

[szbalogh]

Could You make a drawing with the dimensions? I can look around in my stock.

[JohnR725]

I thought I would start off with image from the bestfit book so everyone knows what were looking at. So bestfit reference book is interesting in that it has the fingerprint identification method in case you don't actually know which watch you have. So you go to the relevant page with the size of the watch you have compare your setting parts and the images are the exact size or very close to what you actually have. Here unfortunately we have a minor problem in that several watches have the same setting parts there's a different height of the movement.

So I'm still trying to figure out which watch you actually have? So in the front section of the book the watch companies are listed with all the various calibers and if there's a base model will tell you that. So for instance the 34 the base model is the 33. Then you thought it might be a 29 which is a base model for 30. Then 231 is the base model for a whole bunch of the other 200 series. But it looks like they're all different heights which means the arbors aren't going to fit.

Then the left-handed right-handed setting parts have nothing to do with the barrel arbor. Whether the gear train wraps around the center wheel in one direction or the other doesn't change anything just the physical layout.

So we still have to figure out which one you have?    So you have a 29 arbor which is too long measure that and the one from your watch. Also measure the thickness between the plates of the watch I'm not sure where they actually get the height specification from. If we know the 29 is too long we may be able to guess which one you actually have.

 

 

[Petersas]

JohnR725  The arbor HT is 5.10mm that is the one with the broken screw in,

The UT-159 arbor is HT 6.30mm (UT as you know=unitas 159=arbor

The movement HT 5.25mm  that is measuring from the highest plate/bridge i measured from the barrol bridge to the top plate that the dial rests on as it says to do in the link you sent me.

I have ordered lot's of parts using this book and not had this problem, 

Regards Peter.

[Petersas]

1 hour ago, szbalogh said:

Could You make a drawing with the dimensions? I can look around in my stock.

That is so good of you szbalogh but i would not put you through that, if like me you have a tin full of barrel arbors that could take some time, great of you to offer sir thank you.

[JohnR725]

So based on the numbers and just a guess is either a 31 or 32. Then looking up find out what the barrel arbor number is I came up with this. So this is a bestfit number 195/704 BARREL ARBOR Then I have no idea why they put a second number after the 32? So the list below is all the watches that use this barrel arbor.

UT 32/12
UT 426
UT 429
UT 429N
UT 441
UT 457
UT 465
WAL B16

[JohnR725]

5 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

So based on the numbers and just a guess is either a 31 or 32. Then looking up find out what the barrel arbor number is I came up with this. So this is a bestfit number 195/704 BARREL ARBOR Then I have no idea why they put a second number after the 32? So the list below is all the watches that use this barrel arbor.

UT 32/12
UT 426
UT 429
UT 429N
UT 441
UT 457
UT 465
WAL B16

Right after I posted I was being bothered by why was there the 12 after the 32? Another thing bothering me was the 31 should substitute and it's not on the list? So looking at the book as I was looking someplace else for these numbers they're not the same.

 

[JohnR725]

So I came up with some more numbers but use with caution I'm not sure how interchangeable They are because 31 and 32 still doesn't come up on the list.

So bestfit has a book a very handy book actually It's two volumes there's a second volume which has additional stuff not covered in the first one. They also have a website but you still need the book as the website just has numbers. Then unfortunately you have to pay for the website access.

http://www.bestfitmaterial.com/

So 49-1 claims its base model is the 31 and as I wasn't finding what I wanted for 31 or 32 I looked that up. Now we get a new part numbee and a new list of interchangeability. So at least these have the same plate thickness as the 31.

195/700

UT 231
UT 235
UT 239
UT 243
UT 249
UT 259
UT 265
UT 271
UT 277
UT 447
UT 49-1

 

 

 

 

[Petersas]

JohnR725 I cant thank you enough sir for your time and effort, I am going for the UT 231 195

Will let you know how i get on 

All the best to you sir

 

[Petersas]

On 03/09/2016 at 8:56 PM, szbalogh said:

Seems to me like a Unitas 6498. I can imagine that they use the same sized ratchet wheel screw and arbor. Try to save the arbor and then YOu need only a replacement screw. The winding wheel is usually the one closer to the crown, hence called crown wheel. The one with the barrel arbor is called the ratchet wheel. Make sure which one, since those have different way threads.

Wow szbalogh you're good, 6498 was the first i came to when i looked on the interchangeable parts pdf

Thank you for your help sir, will keep you informed on how i get on,

All the best

[Petersas]

Well that's another spare mainspring barrel arbor for my tin  the UT231159 was to short. cousinsuk no return....

Now they are trying to sell me a bigger TIN

[JohnR725]

So link below is for the 231.If you read the remarks on the right-hand side you'll notice a reference that the 231 has a different barrel then the predecessor ones. Unfortunately we really need a decent parts breakdown list for these watches which we don't have.

One of things which I didn't think would be a good method was to look at the mainsprings size and that's not helpful both of them 231 and the 31 have the same mainspring. Just because at the same mainspring doesn't mean they would have to have the same arbor.

Then we get a picture of the front of the watch even though there's no identifying numbers?

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Unitas_231

[bobm12]

mmm, I'm sorry if I get a little off topic here but out of curiosity, do you guys think that a Breguet hairspring could be used in the ETA 6498/97...or better, the balance complete?

Thank you advance for allowing this small detour! Just satisfying my curiosity!

Cheers,

Bob

[szbalogh]

17 minutes ago, bobm12 said:

mmm, I'm sorry if I get a little off topic here but out of curiosity, do you guys think that a Breguet hairspring could be used in the ETA 6498/97...or better, the balance complete?

Thank you advance for allowing this small detour! Just satisfying my curiosity!

Cheers,

Bob

Interesting question. I think it is possible but without an over-coil since there is no room for it. One needs also a special tool to find the mounting point. What an accident, today i made an over-coil making tweezer