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How to open an old Elgin pocket watch?


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I was contacted a few days ago by my wife's uncle who had heard that I was interested in watch repair. He said that he had my wife's grandfather's old Elgin pocket watch that didn't work anymore and that if I wanted to see if I could bring it back to life he would send it to me. Well it arrived and it is a beautiful timepiece! Right off the bat though I have a few questions...

  1. Can anyone provide me any info about this pocket watch? Age, etc?
  2. He told me that it was rise gold. Is there anyway to confirm that and what exactly is "rose" gold?
  3. How to I access the movement?
  4. When I open the dial cover, there is no crystal to protect the hands and dial. Should there be or id this how they were made?
  5. Also, there is a hinged cover on the back with a bad hinge. How would I go about repairing that and what was it for?

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Edited by mcass
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Rose gold is the name given to the colour it has a slightly reddish tint.

The back should flip off you should be able to this with a case knife.

It should have a glass as you can see it has a bezel and the original glass would be very thin and it would be glass and not one of those horrible plastic things.

If you can open it there will be a serial number and you can look on the internet and find out the age.

The broken back hinge is a sort of extra dust cap. A good jeweller that undertakes gold repairs should be able to fix that for you. If you don't have the equipment or knowledge of gold case repairs I would farm this case repair out.        

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oldhippy is correct on all counts, if you examine the dust shield, (cover closest to movement), there should be some marks/scratches where it's been opened in the past. Most hunter style case breakage was due to wear from being 'pressed' shut, like the old cowboy movies, crown should be pressed then front cover closed and release crown to engage holder. Might be tall task to get case repaired, not a ton of good case guys around. BTW beautiful case! Show movement pic when you get open, please.

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Ok so as soon as I got home from work I sat down and gently opened the case. I am able to make out the serial number on the movement and went googling....this is what I found home.elgintime.com:8080/elgintime/SnumLookup?SN=419300119d624c9e62640e487f352e835a49362.jpg

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Well done I see it's not a fully jeweled movement. A little advice pay attention to the pivots and pivot holes make sure the pivots aren't worn and that they are highly polished and the pivot holes are nice and round and not oval, that's the sign of wear, make sure the teeth are all good and the wheel pinions.   

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WOW! cleaned everything and started putting it back together. Everything goes real smooth until I go to put the bridge on. I can get everything lined up with their pivots but the escape wheel and the 4th wheel. Ive literally spent about 3 1/2 hours trying to get everything lined up  for this one bridge.

 

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OK I finally got everything lined up but now I have a question. After winding it up, it isnt starting on its own but if I give the balance wheel a nudge it will beat for about 10-15 second and then stop. Gradually it beats longer the more I do it. So here is my question, does the balance staff and balance wheel need to be taken from its pivots to clean properly. I ask because thus far I have just been taking the assembly off the movement and soaking it as one piece. It just seems to me that it is possible that its pivots are possibly still dirty causing the drag. Would this be possible?

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Have you oiled it? If so I would take the power off and remove the balance and the pallets, put a little power on it and see if the power runs right down, if so that means the problem is likely to be pallets, look at the stones make sure there ok, not loose or chipped if they look good put the pallets back in put a little power on and move the pallets with a pair of tweezers and watch the action go right round the escape wheel, if that is ok check the balance pivots, jewels end stones and impulse pin, end shake, make sure the hairspring isn't rubbing and is nice and flat, sometimes the hairspring stud can rub on the balance so check that.

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Here's some data on your Elgin:

Grade: 95

 
Manufacturer: Elgin question.png
Manufacturer Location: Elgin, Illinois question.png
Movement Serial Number: 4193001 question.png
Grade: 95 question.png
Model: 1 question.png
Class: 52 question.png
Estimated Production Year: 1891 question.png
Run Quantity: 8,000 question.png
Total Production: 409,000 question.png
Size: 6s question.png
Jewels: 7j question.png
Movement Configuration: Hunting question.png
Movement Finish: Gilt question.png
Movement Setting: Lever question.png
Plate: 3/4 Plate question.png
Barrel: Going question.png
Train: Quick question.png
Regulator: Plain question.png
Adjusted: No question.png
Railroad Grade: No question.png
Quality Rating:  
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  • 4 months later...
WOW! cleaned everything and started putting it back together. Everything goes real smooth until I go to put the bridge on. I can get everything lined up with their pivots but the escape wheel and the 4th wheel. Ive literally spent about 3 1/2 hours trying to get everything lined up  for this one bridge.

 


I feel your pain. Took me 2 hours to line up a bridge plate on a 7750 Valjoux watch. What a pain in the butt


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8 hours ago, mcass said:

How can I find out what type of crystal I need for this and where might I find one?

It will be flat with a beveled edge and made of glass and not to thick.

Hard to come by you could try ebay, or if you know some old chap that's been working with watches for donkeys years and has stock handed down and accumulated stock. I had hundreds of the things but when it came to finding the right one I failed many times, what I had was very odd sizes left me. Try looking for someone who just works with pocket watches try the net.

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Hi mcass, glasses for a hunter pocket watch are very difficult to find.

Can you tell me where you are. I have a contact from another forum and he makes amazing glasses of all types and for a small charge on top of the price of the glass he will fit it to you watch.

Mike

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4 hours ago, Alaskamick said:

Hi mcass, glasses for a hunter pocket watch are very difficult to find.

Can you tell me where you are. I have a contact from another forum and he makes amazing glasses of all types and for a small charge on top of the price of the glass he will fit it to you watch.

Mike

That's what I like about this forum its nice and friendly.

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on a hunting case  the glass is not flat.  it has to fit under case lid and is convex and very thin and  fragile.  very hard to find and install without breakage.  the  proper shaped in plastic is easy to find and install.  most people would go with the plastic until the proper glass ( and the expert installer) can be found.  the hinge has a tapered pin with end caps.  very good show,  keep  working on the mvt.  and save the case for later.  cheers  vinn

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Hunter Style or Geneva Crystal

If the watch has a hunter-case (with a metal cover over the dial and crystal) then the watch uses a hunter-style or Geneva-style crystal. Hunter-style crystals tend to be quite thin and fragile, and vary from almost flat to slightly convex, but all must be low enough to allow the metal case lid to close. One of the challenges of fitting a replacement hunter crystal is that it must be high enough to not touch the center arbor or interfere with the hands, and low enough to not interfere with the case lid. Sometimes there is VERY little clearance and finding a crystal that fits properly can be quite difficult.

Typical glass thickness for a hunter crystal is 0.4mm - 0.5mm, so they are quite thin and fragile. This is a great reason why you NEVER shut a hunter case watch with your big ol' thumb pressing right in the middle of the cover... if the clearance between cover and crystal is small, you're very likely to break the crystal!

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 It says they vary from almost flat to slightly convex. Semi lunate as I recall is moon shaped which would come under slightly convex. It all depends on the front of the case shutting, just had another look at the front and it doesn't look very high at all.  

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