ETA 2551 Service by Beginner

[bobm12]

Hi Alexander,

Those are good questions as well as the previous oiling part. This is my take on what I can comment which is not all or an absolute since there are many ways to do things watchmaking or otherwise and they may work for some and not work for others...my suggestion is try and experiment to see what system works better for you. All that said here I go:

The oiling of the fork the way you do it is the recommended way according to some Swiss experts that work for reputable firms (youtube and web in general)...that said, it requires a lot of control and NO COFFEE!  I do it depending on many factors and in most cases skip "the right way" and do what Endeavor got from Jose....I just don't use Rodico and hold the fork with the tweezers (being a lazy a$$)...since I can use both hands the same anyway, same dexterity. The problem with that method is that if you drop the fork in the movement or it rubs against anything you will be cleaning the whole thing again and/or disassembling parts to get to the contaminated one to clean...if you want to do it right. So, in my mind, better the right way (the way you were doing it) even though it is not the easier way.

Then you ask how to polish an oiler...this I've not yet done and I'm as curious as you are, BUT in my mind since it is shaped as a small spoon, we may need very fine (1200 or so grit) of emery paper and try and get it in all surfaces...I'll try it myself and report back. The issue with the D5 is that probably you are dipping the oiler too much...I said probably!

The other question could be too much end play because it is an old movement or weak mainspring...among a number of other things but those are the first ones I thought of....mainspring first.

Now, the springs....those I got by loosing many! Use a stick of peg wood to hold it down while manipulating with the tweezers. There is a trick, same as with the two tweezers method for incabloc springs, if you manipulate with one the other holds the part, i.e. you do not let go from both the peg wood and the tweezers at the same time, if you do you have a flier!

That is my take on it as I mentioned at the beginning. I hope some other members with more experience can share some more about this.

So far, I see you have done all the right moves with that movement and what you have not done right at the beginning you have been able to correct perfectly in the end so in my book you did more than great!

Cheers,

Bob

[AlexanderB]

Thank you Bob for your detailed response.

Regarding the fork I had to smile and think of the old saying "Everybody said it was impossible until someone came along who didn't know that and just did it...". I feel a tiny little bit like that because I didn't find it too difficult to do "the swiss way". If I didn't know about the different ways and had to choose, I would still choose this method, mostly because I wouldn't dare putting the pallet fork in place with the oil already on the pallet. I would be sure that I'd smear it all over the place. Isn't that funny?

One of the things I really learned in the last two days is that the way you work on a movement is essential: elbows comfortably resting on the workbench and only your hands are subjected to gravity. I used to work more with the elbows in the air which brought some undesirable results. Being relaxed on the workbench is essential, I learned.

Regarding the polishing we may wait whith what @Cad101 comes up with. The Bergeon oilers are in a pretty good shape I think.

I will also look into the D5-dipping. You may be right. I'll look into it.

I don't consider the mainspring of being the culprit since the amplitude on the time is excellent (up to 280°). From all I read so far a weak mainspring would lead to a lower amplitude.

Regarding the springs I apply the same technique. Yet they still seem to feel a deep urge of freedom!

Hey folks, I'd like to hear some more opinions

Cheers Alexander

 

[Cad101]

 

[Cad101]

Picture quality is a bit naff I thought there was a he one but can't find it 

[AlexanderB]

Excellent Video. Thanks for sharing!

Cheers Alexander

BTW the video has a built-in auto redirect to the full HD version.

Now I will start practicing these methods. Again: this is what I was hoping for!

Edited May 1, 2016 by AlexanderB
added points

[AlexanderB]

I immediately did some testing. I just wasn't aware how much there is only to getting the oil to the oiler. I have to admit I just dipped the oiler in the oil. No wonder I had huge drops on it. Even without polishing the oiler, the results are much better now. Again, thanks for sharing this really well done video!

Cheers Alexander

[frenchie]

What a tread !!!! Thank you Alexander!!! It's great to see your progress, your questions, your struggles, and thought process. Congrats.

 

Regarding your questions:

- Never heard of polishing an oiler, but let us know what you find. Those 2 oiling videos completely changed my life when I found them the first time. I used to just dip the oiler and put a blob of oil wherever it was needed. But then I found I was always overlubricating (and it's hard to remove oil without cleaning all the parts again...)

- Using a sharp piece of pegwood to clean all jewels can make a huge difference. The smallest piece of dry oil in the jewel will contaminate the clean oil, making it all gunky in no time, and that could influence how "smooth" the movement is. I've also had a tiny piece of lint float in the escapement and stop the watch. In your case, the readings you're getting are nice, and if it were my work, I'd be happy with them ! As mentioned already, run the watch for a couple of days and check again, it'll probably have changed (all the lubricants will be where they should, all the wheels will have gone around a couple of times at least and it should all be nicely settled)

- For those pesky little flying springs, it's always a 2 hands job for me: brass tweezers freshly dressed (makes a HUGE difference, just like with small screws), and a nice piece of pegwood. As an insurance policy, you can try to work inside a transparent plastic bag (when I do that, I use a plastic bag open on both ends for easy access (more like a plastic tube), and it's pretty effective at restricting the flight range of the spring to a confined area)

 

Also, I highly recommend "Watch Repair for beginners" by Harold C. Kelly if you don't have it yet. It's a great book that covers a LOT: basic disassembly, automatic movements, fault finding with a timegrapher (the old plot style), to oiling, to some math related to watches and gears, all the types of escapements.... This is my go-to book

 

Again, congrats on your great walk through and on your accomplishments, I look forward to see more !!!

[AlexanderB]

Thank you @frenchie for your kind comment. Didn't have the book and just ordered it.

BTW: I added a dial and hands to the watch yesterday 7.30pm and its maybe 30s slow, barely to see since I didn't have a second hand. But anyway: if its not worn it won't show too much. But what it does show is: it's running pretty accurate after my maintenance, it runs more than 24h and the date mechanism works. What more can I ask for: Operation successful, patient still alive!

Cheers Alexander

[Cad101]

Well done great thread great breakdown nice pics and a working movement what more can you ask for I'll give you a A++ oh and a  

Mick

[AlexanderB]

Thank you very much Mick,

This morning, roughly 18h after winding I looked at the watch: still running and still less than one minute late.

It was a full success! And great it'll help others too. Best part for me was learning how to properly use the oiler.

Cheers Alexander

[bobm12]

Way to go Alexander! Now you can treat yourself to a beer or two and relax and savor your success. I assure you, many more will come!

Cheers,

Bob

PS. Who will be wearing that watch with pride?!!

[AlexanderB]

2 hours ago, bobm12 said:

PS. Who will be wearing that watch with pride?!!

Too bad, I don't have a case for the movement. Just got the movements and dials and a couple of hands.

Cheers Alexander

[AlexanderB]

Short update: the watch ran for roughly 50h i7:30 the day before yesterday until 9:30. That is amazing I would say. Too bad I don't have a case. This movement would be worth being used.

Next will be an ETA 2369 Movement, which was built 1952 until 1966. I have two of them so I do have spares. Again here: no case, just the movement with dial and hands. Will open another thread as soon as I start. BTW pretty much the same size.

Cheers Alexander

[Siro]

On 29 April 2016 at 4:41 PM, AlexanderB said:

Thanks Bob, but why "anxiously"?

I actually did all the steps a couple of days ago. So the pictures come in now very quickly.

What I should mention is that one of the most important photos is the first of my last post. Here you can clearly see the position of the Date Jumper with its spring. BTW it took me 1h to get to this stage: 10min of taking away the parts and 50min under the workbench looking for the da... date jumper spring! I'm sure I am the only one crawling under the workbench looking for parts.

Next: disassembly of the different date wheels, setting wheel, pawl winding wheel etc. and the automatic assembly.

I should have done the automatic assembly first and then take away the balance wheel / balance cock. I'd like to have the balance out of the way as soon as possible. There is a certain risk of damaging it when holding the movement in the movement holder.

 

 

[Siro]

On 29 April 2016 at 4:52 PM, AlexanderB said:

On this side of the movement finally the barrel bridge, barrel and the intermediate wheel (not 100% sure about this).

SPRINGS ! I've been servicing watches since 1968 when my father died and I ineherited  his  tools I used to watch him and have a go on scrap movements. Return bar springs click springs especially the U shaped ones e used to fill me with dread as the always want go flying round the room till I discovered the cotton trick I tie a piece of cotton about 1.5 foot round the bottom of the U ( a loose not ) then put the damn thing in position. If it flys out I've still got it. Put the plate or what ever holds it looslely in position then fish the cotton out tighten up there you go over the years this must have saved me 100s of hours if not1000s. S