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Sowulo

Another newbie

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Hello everybody. 

I'm yet another guy fascinated with watches. I've never owned a mechanical watch until I turned 30 (which was nearly three years back) and I was gifted Tissot Visodate. Unfortunately it is a litle bit too big and uncomfortable for my taste to be used everyday (I know it is tiny compared to what people like these days). So I was surfing ebay couple of weeks ago an I spoted a nice vintage Vostok Komandirskie watch in mint condition. It had original box, straps and even papers. Made in 1979. So I gave it a shot. 2234 Soviet made movement. I was reading stuff on watchuseek forum and I felt draged in to watches. Another three watches made theyr way to my home in no time. Poliot alarm with 2612.1 movement, Slava Automatic with 2427 movement and unknown vintage Caravelle. Also vintage Belforte is on its way.

So now I'm thinking of getting some tools for watchmaking. I've red this

Any idea how much this kind of kit would cost? I don't really want to buy cheapest chinese tools but at the same time I don't want to splash too much either. Basically I'm aiming for best value for money. Which of those tools mentioned are worth investing more? All advise are welcome and thank you in advance.

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Welcome to the forum Sowulo! Glad I can help with MHO. I'm a hobbyist too and have taken some classes here and there but must important, I've dealt with the cheapo and the expensive stuff: the name and the nameless brands. I'll tell you, life is sooo much easier with the right tools!

To start, I can say, you can skimp on a press but you never skimp on good tweezers and good screwdrivers. Also a good holder both for the movement and for the case is a plus and definitely the tool(s) to open watch cases are important (something middle of the road may fit your bill...not for me though considering the potential for scratches). But again, it is all a matter of quality: better finish, better and more durable materials. You might spend US$20 on ONE screwdriver that will last you for life and be dependable or you can spend the same amount on a whole set that will make you miserable...and even though you can change tips using quality ones, in the end, due to alignment, finish, etc the cheapo will always be the cheapo.

Get good and comfortable optics...something that works according to your specs as a user. Get good illumination of the spot where you choose to work and make that spot free of dust, etc...spotless clean! Get rodico, peg wood sticks and pithwood.

Another expense is a choice of oils and oilers. Get good oilers, they are "inexpensive" and get good oil: 4 essential ones and one grease! Then, choose how you will clean the movements when you service them, and plan accordingly on chemicals and hopefully a machine type.

I think that pretty much that sums up the essentials....Again, welcome!

Cheers,

Bob

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Welcome to this friendly forum. I have around 30 experience as a watch and clock maker. Just backing up what bobm12 has said. Don't buy cheep tools they won't last, pay as much as you can afford, you won't be able to get everything at once but start with a good pair of tweezers I always bought  dumont number 3 and for fine work number 5. Screwdrivers bergeon,  there has been a a good talk on here about which movement holder to buy, you should be able to find the link.

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Welcome to the forum Sowulo, it's good to have you here.

Regarding tools, you don't have to spend a fortune, but you probably will.  I strongly suggest that you make a point of reading as many threads in the "Watch Repair Tools and Equipment" section as you can, there is a lot of good and varied advice there to help you make up your mind.

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Excellent advice from members above. I would just add that - as I know to my cost - it's comparatively simple to get a movement to bits, but can be fiendishly difficult to get it back right again and in the proper order.

So my advice would be to take notes at every stage, set the disassembled parts out in order of disassembly and, if you can do it, take a photograph at every stage to back up the notes. Then, like setting out on a maze with a long string or a trail of breadcrumbs, you won't get lost on the journey home. Part of your tool kit will be trays or dishes or plastic containers to hold disassembled parts.

And - I'm sure you know this - learn the terminology of the mechanism so that, if you ask a question, you're talking parts language that people here can understand. You'll get even more help! :biggrin:

Cheers,

Will

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Welcome Sowulo I'm sure you'll learn a great deal here. I agree with all that's been said in particular to screwdrivers and tweezers I thought I was being clever with the attitude of how can cheap ones be any different to more expensive brands only to find out at my peril. It gets annoying when your trying to take a tight screw out with what seems to be a stick of butter. And learn how to dress your tweezers and keep them in good shape a slightly abrasive set of tweezer jaws are much better for picking up very small slippery objects.

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Thanks for warm welcome and your thoughts.

What is the best online shop for tools in UK? CousinsUK, eternaltools.com or mhorological.co.uk?

Now screwdrivers. Are AF good enough or am I trying to go cheap here? Do I need the whole set or It is enough to have lets say grey, black, yellow and red?

Bob, you mentioned oils. Can you name those essential 4 and one grease please? I know there is thread going about oils but I find it confusing due to amount of replies. Also what size oilers do I need? Are oilers fragile (they probably are but are they easy to brake or they tend to bend)? Also what options do I have for movement cleaning? I know there are proper watchmakers cleaning machines. Ultrasound cleaners is an option?

Will, I've booked a book from our local library (I'm waiting for it to get delivered from other department) "Watchmaking" by G.Daniels so I hope to get terminology right.

I think first I'm going to get my hands on Caravelle. There are no complications in movement so should be easiest to practise on. It is working and looks like keeps time but it was listed as unserviced.

Thanks again for your replies and advice. I really appreciate it

 

 

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Hi Sowulo,

I've had some AF screwdrivers and they are fairly good. Since you are starting on the Caravelle, do you have the movement number? I would only buy for now the size of the screwdrivers needed for that movement if I want to save money...and don't mind the wait when I decide to work on a different movement. I would also try one Horotec and one Bergeon screwdriver to see which is more to "my" style...I use Bergeon but some of my friends here prefer Horotec. Either way, the tips are interchangeable on all three (3) brands...of course we are talking AF with the screw not the other type. I can't tell you about the colors off the top of my head...

In UK, -- and many other parts of the world too -- CousinsUK seems to be the best. I personally order a lot from them even though we have big suppliers here too...it just depends. I have no experience with the other two.

As far as oils, this is a "sticky" subject, pardon the pun. I would say it also depends on the watch, service data and size. In any case, you can be as safe as you could ever be by having -- talking wrist watches -- Moebius 9010 (double duty on low bit movement for the pallet jewels too), D5 or HP 1300 and Moly (keyless works and such). As far as the grease, depends if you are working in autos or not. If the Caravelle is not an auto, maybe Moebious 8200 (on mainspring, not barrel) will do. Now that is a bare minimum. You should see what recommendations are in the service data and go by those if at all possible.

Now, for the oilers, get the Bergeon (the cheapest of their offerings). Get the set (about US$12) it is more economical than buying separate...in the end you will mostly use the black one (the thinnest one). They shouldn't bend or break with proper use...don't go poking at stuff with those you use for oiling!

Rodico and pithwood are your best friends to keep the oilers clean so you don't contaminate during applications. Clean your oilers after every application even with the same oil. Also, get some oil pots of fairly good quality...I bought one once made of Bakelite that appeared to have a crack and all the oil would magically disappear...also because the lid was cheap, it didn't succeed to keep whatever oil still remained free of dust, evaporation and more...I had to replace that one!

I use a regular, inexpensive but not cheapo, ultrasonic and appropriate baskets and beakers to clean. Also proper ultrasonic Watch Cleaning solutions (wash and rinse, two different ones). You can clean by hand using naphtha or a similar (Ronsonol). Check out our cleaning topics.

The book you have chosen is excellent and a most. Also, find and download a DeCarle book...it is in pdf on the web. There are many watch related books you can learn from but those would give you a good start. You can check out the Seiko "repair" couse in the web somewhere that shows you how to "work" on Seikos for free...In the end, you have many options that will pop up as you advance.

Hope this answers your questions. Good luck in your watchmaking journey!

Cheers,

Bob

 

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Hi Bob,

I dont have movement number of my Caravelle. The case is only 32mm in diameter. O the dial it says only Caravelle and water resistant, on the back N2 (year code?) base metal bezel, antimagnetic, stainless steel back, water resistant, shock resistant. It is definately not automatic. No clue how many jewels though.

Thanks to you all

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I guess you'll find out when you open the back of the watch. It is usually somewhere in there...on one of the bridges or under the balance wheel...Looks something like "11BLC" or similar. With that number you can find the service data and hopefully the size of the screws....then you know what screwdrivers are necessary...and what oils.

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I will definitely find out when I open it. I just didn't have right tools to do so. Yesterday I made an order at cousins and I exceeded my budget by 50 percent. I hope my wife won't be at home when it arives...

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk

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I took ''Watchmaking '' by George Daniels from library today. I didn't expect book to be that big. I'm a little bit disappointed because it is intended for experienced watchmakers and not noobs. Anyone can suggest more newbie friendly books?

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk

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Yes,

Watch Repair for Beginners: An Illustrated How-To Guide for the Beginner Watch Repairer 

 by Harold C. Kelly

or/and

Practical Watch Repairing

by Donald De Carle

Also check this one out: http://www.clockmaker.com.au/diy_seiko_7s26/

AND don't forget Mark's videos!!!

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Thanks Bob,

You are very helpful as always. I was reading on that Seiko project for beginners yesterday. Good stuff. I'll check those books you recommended. And I'm always watching Mark's videos when I have a spare minute...

 

 

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All of the Donald de Carle books in my option are worth having in your library. The George Daniels book is also not just for the pro.  It just shows the technics George Daniels used to create his wonderful time pieces & these technics can be used by all aspiring watch repairers.

 

 

 

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Looks like I've got first real patient. I've droped my Poljot alarm watch by accident today and it stoped working. It was my favorite watch. I've opened back case to have a peek inside (I'm still waiting for my tools). Everything is so tiny inside. I thought it would be bigger. I think that it was a falce perception after watching too many close up videos of watch repair... 

Anyway I'm off for couple of days.

Thanks for your suggestions of books.

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So I started dismantling my Poljot alarm with 2612.1 movement. I've got reference regards this movement here and here. What I've found so far was a big fluff on the escape wheel even though watch arived from Ukraine as ''serviced''.

I've found difficult to determine where the end of the tweezers are while looking through an eyepiece. Couple of times I poked in to movement. Anyway it is probably not the best movement for beginer so wish me luck

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Good Luck!

Yes, no depth perception can be a hassle. Sometimes I concentrate on getting the piece I'm working on in perfect focus, then bring the tool in slowly until it too is in focus. It will then be close.

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Looks like I've found what's may be wrong with my Poljot.

70b36e73bfff8dfdf0d0293d5531ea5c.jpg

Looks like atleast one banking pin is bent. Any idea how to fix it without braking it off?

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk

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Members with more experience might have a different opinion but if it was me I would first attempt using a small pin vice and adjust very gently as it clearly has been bent once already. Control is the key as it will snap off quite easily.  I expect it was an attempt to adjust the beat. I don,t know if a touch of heat might make the move safer.

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