Seiko mainspring barrel not opening....

[diamondslayer]

Do some mainspring barrels in seiko's not open? Or do they open up different?

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[jdm]

Generally, Seiko barrels are not meant to be opened. You can still open them insisting a little..

[rogart63]

Some like the 7005 have a split in the middle. Insert a sharp knife an twist that a little to open the barrel. This picture is a 7005 and you can see that split. 

[Lawson]

Also a word of caution diamondslayer.  The grease they use in many Seiko barrels is horrible black stuff the makes a nasty mess of anything it touches.  Open those Seiko barrels is my least favorite job

 

[diamondslayer]

How do you clean them if you don't open them?

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[oldhippy]

48 minutes ago, diamondslayer said:

How do you clean them if you don't open them?

You don't need to open the barrel, you can clean round the arbor with rodico or peg wood which is sufficient enough. 

 

[Mark]

Generally, Seiko barrels are not meant to be opened. You can still open them insisting a little..

You do need to open them

They have a slightly different cap than a standard barrel. Much the same as a valjoux 7750 barrel. The cap has a rim which extends right down to the barrel teeth tricky to open without damaging the barrel teeth. I find an extremely sharp razor blade is perfect for opening the cap.

On these seikos the mainspring has to come out as they are usually in an awful mess.

Also - note the orientation the mainspring is wound in. It will be the reverse of most Swiss watch barrels.

[jdm]

Just now, Mark said:

You do need to open them

They have a slightly different cap than a standard barrel. Much the same as a valjoux 7750 barrel. The cap has a rim which extends right down to the barrel teeth tricky to open without damaging the barrel teeth. I find an extremely sharp razor blade is perfect for opening the cap.

On these seikos the mainspring has to come out as they are usually in an awful mess.

Also - note the orientation the mainspring is wound in. It will be the reverse of most Swiss watch barrels.

Thanks Mark. To be honest the only 7S26 barrel that I've opened wasn't difficult at all, and no mess was found inside. I did replace the mainspring, but that didn't seem to make much difference.

[diamondslayer]

Thanks Mark!

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[oldhippy]

Mark I don't know if you are aware back in  70's and 80's Seiko advised repairs if the the watch was 5 to 10 years old you should replace the whole barrel and not to open it to clean. Up to 5 years there is no need to do anything apart from cleaning the arbor. 

[Mark]

16 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Mark I don't know if you are aware back in  70's and 80's Seiko advised repairs if the the watch was 5 to 10 years old you should replace the whole barrel and not to open it to clean. Up to 5 years there is no need to do anything apart from cleaning the arbor. 

Not aware of this - but for two decades I have always opened them up and done what I do with every watch

Actually - I have made a video of my method, write or wrong, and will upload it now so you guys can see how mucky they get, and this one was not too bad, Ive seen worse.

I shot a whole video for the 7S26 but have not finished editing it yet.

 

Edit... @oldhippy, I can see why Seiko would recommend this actually as the mainsprings can be damaged very very easily on these.

[Mark]

 

[oldhippy]

We all have our different ways Mark. I think that is one reason why seiko barrels are different and can be hard to open. I look forward to the video, for me its nice seeing other watchmakers working and how the go about their work.

[Mark]

1 minute ago, oldhippy said:

... for me its nice seeing other watchmakers working and how the go about their work.

Very true - one of the reasons this forum exists

[jdm]

26 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Mark I don't know if you are aware back in  70's and 80's Seiko advised repairs if the the watch was 5 to 10 years old you should replace the whole barrel and not to open it to clean. Up to 5 years there is no need to do anything apart from cleaning the arbor. 

Still the case today. Only barrel complete has a part number (if one can obtain the actual part). Which doesn't mean tha one can't open it anyway and replace MS with a generic part for a small saving.

[Lawson]

One thing to mention about not only the 7s26, but many of the older Seiko movements, is that the lower arbor hole is often badly worn and needs to jeweled.  This is because they ran the arbor straight steel to steel, without a bushing.  Without regular servicing intervals these tend to wear badly and put the barrel on a slight tilt, causing the movement to have a lower amplitude.  In severe cases the barrel has tilted so much it's worn the plating off the top of the barrel as it rubs on the bridge, and the brass is exposed.

This fault is seen so frequently where I work, that even if the barrel is fine we jewel the hole as part of the service: as preventative maintenance.

[Lawson]

3 hours ago, Mark said:

Actually - I have made a video of my method, write or wrong, and will upload it now so you guys can see how mucky they get, and this one was not too bad, Ive seen worse.

I shot a whole video for the 7S26 but have not finished editing it yet.

NO FAIR MARK!!  You got a clean one.

Why do I always get the barrels that look like they've been filled with Track-Roller Grease!

[Mark]

NO FAIR MARK!!  You got a clean one. [emoji5]

Why do I always get the barrels that look like they've been filled with Track-Roller Grease!

Lol. Believe me - I've had them.

[oldhippy]

I think you will find Seiko use graphite grease.

[jdm]

10 hours ago, Lawson said:

This fault is seen so frequently where I work, that even if the barrel is fine we jewel the hole as part of the service: as preventative maintenance.

Something like this? https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/centre-wheel-jewels-seitz

These are very expensive. Or where do you get the stones from?

[Lawson]

We get them from our parts department 

Seriously, I'm not sure of the cost mate.  We charge it out as "Auto Calendar Service" which is a flat rate of AU$495.00 for any standard 3 hand automatic movement with a date complication.

Sorry I can't be any more specific ... but you simply measure the arbor diameter (ID)  and the broach you used to re-round the hole (OD) ... add a couple of thou to the OD for a press fit, and also check the ID for correct side-shake to get the correct jewel.  Some plates require more broaching then others ... so the size you use can vary slightly for each movement.

I'm sure Mark will make a step-by-step video on jeweling worn bushings one day and it will be all clear.  It's not a difficult job with the correct tools.

[bobm12]

5 hours ago, Lawson said:

I'm sure Mark will make a step-by-step video on jeweling worn bushings one day and it will be all clear.  It's not a difficult job with the correct tools.

I'm looking forward to this very much!

Cheers,

Bob