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Chinese Timegraphers

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Sorry to hear that...

I primarily use it on the open movement, not so much on closed up watches where the sensitivity of the mic can be an issue.

And I make sure to place the mic right over the pallet fork/escapement area where the sound is created. A bit fiddling with the sensitivity and filter usually gives me workable data for adjustment of rate, beat and amplitude.

I have been thinking of sourcing/building an alternative mic but never got that far. Would be interesting to hear if anyone out there made any such attempts for this app.




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A better mic would probably help. After your post I updated my ap but it didn’t seem to help a lot. I was working with the watch I had on- ‘76 9411 blue dial. 

Maybe it’s working but generally a watch that graphs like a shotgun blast doesn’t run well and this does. 

Maybe I’ll try a different watch tomorrow and see if it’s any better. 

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18 hours ago, Tudor said:

I guess if it's a matter of accuracy, the investment is worth it to me. But, although I see a calibration port, I have no idea how to actually calibrate it... (I see no calibration tools out there) With regards to cheap measurement tools, as long as I can confirm the accuracy/repeatability I'm good. If a $10 tool can be calibrated to do the job, I'm good. Conversely, if I can't rely on (or confirm) the "cheap" tool, I am not afraid to spend a bit. (I have about four billion dollars in Snap-On automotive tools spanning three generations).

Price difference is not necessarily visual. I've done side-by-side comparison of a watch expert 2 and the 1000 and 1900. Casually with most comparisons they do really quite well it is not necessarily the visual things that make the difference. Witschi is a real company in existence in Switzerland. Some of the Chinese machines have the name WeiShi on them strangely enough it's not mentioned where their addresses is in their book. So they come from China warranty issues technical questions not going get any of that.

In a professional machine you get everything spelled out additional functions greater ranges nicer microphone. These are expected to run every single day in a watch shop. There is better audio processing in a noisy environment the Chinese machines can have problems. Or the ability to listen to your watch versus the irritating beeping sound. Frequency mode  tells the beats per hour of the watch.

Problem watches what does the timing machines do with them? The Chinese less intelligence so usually attempt to show you something where witschi decides that it will save you from the grief and not show you anything. But change the setting of the machine to rate only the machine is no longer trying to calculate amplitude & beat from something it can't you will usually get a display. Occasionally have to go to frequency mode if the machine just can't figure out what the timing is. Then extremes that really aren't important like extreme low amplitude. Chinese machines have a habit of not reading the right part of the waveform  display something that looks really nice visual the watch does not look nice witschi will go down the 70° which is definitely not a desirable amplitude..

This doesn't necessarily mean witschi was perfect with everything they do. The early days the Chinese would compare to the watch expert 2. In particular the display and they were right display isn't the best. Looks great except it's shiny everything reflects off of it try to photograph it very difficult usually get reflections off of all sorts of stuff. Even talked to another watchmaker he had to put pith wood under the machine to tip it at the right angle so they could see the display and not get the overhead lights. But that is no longer a problem they're all backlit now.

So if you're a professional watchmaker you're probably going to have a witschi. Or if you have lots of money or perhaps a timing machine obsession then those things will influence you. But the Chinese timing machines have one feature extremely important for this group that is there affordable. So the cost of a timing machine is no longer an excuse as to why you don't have one.Then it's important to remember  there is not just for timing of the watch  there really nice diagnostic tool providing you grasp what they're showing.

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I’m looking at timegraphers on Amazon and I think they are the same, just different branding and price:

Weishi
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Weishi-Timegrapher-NO-1900-Machine-Multifunction/dp/B0178B9DYM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1531166881&sr=8-2&keywords=timegrapher+1900

Eco-Worthy
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ECO-WORTHY-No-1900-Multifunction-Timegrapher-Mechanical/dp/B076WS9PGX/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1531166881&sr=8-1&keywords=timegrapher+1900

My guess is they are made in the same factory and they are the same thing but you never know. I’m hoping some you might know.

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I’m looking at timegraphers on Amazon and I think they are the same, just different branding and price:

Weishi
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Weishi-Timegrapher-NO-1900-Machine-Multifunction/dp/B0178B9DYM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1531166881&sr=8-2&keywords=timegrapher+1900

Eco-Worthy
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ECO-WORTHY-No-1900-Multifunction-Timegrapher-Mechanical/dp/B076WS9PGX/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1531166881&sr=8-1&keywords=timegrapher+1900

My guess is they are made in the same factory and they are the same thing but you never know. I’m hoping some you might know.

I would say YES ... the only difference being the "weishi" brand printed on one of the items, just to mimic "witschi" brand.
If you fell to take your chance about import taxes on AliExpress you can get that item much cheaper here http://s.aliexpress.com/nYJjyqI7?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard

Envoyé de mon Moto G (5) Plus en utilisant Tapatalk

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On 9/13/2014 at 9:12 PM, Mark said:

The 1900 give you the option to manually select the beat. This can be very useful. The 1000 is very limited in this respect. Having said that, the 1000 is excellent for majority of watches you would work on, no good for co-axials but good for the most common beat ranges.

My 1900 does an excellent job, gives me a good low down on bal/esc cond. I could not live without it when servicing a watch.

 

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not sure if I'm interpreting your question correctly? So I've attached a couple of pictures showing the sensor found in the microphone. You have to disassemble the assembly to get to the sensor. Then if you want any more pictures of the inside of the 1000 let me i photographed everything when I had a part.

tgp2.JPG

tgp1.JPG

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So the sound is not picked up through the metal stop by contact with the watch.  My timegrapher's stop tends to scratch the watch so if I puts some tape or heat shrink on the metal stop it would not reduce the ability to measure the sounnd?

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

 

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timing machine pickups are interesting they pick up the vibration of the watch. While the sound is a vibration they have to make physical contact with whatever they're picking up. So you cannot insulate the metal part because it has to make physical contact with the watch. the vibration picked up at the top  is transmitted down to the sensor. So any form of insulation preventing the vibration getting to the metal part means the pickup doesn't get anything either. So if it's scratching because there's a sharp edge you can smooth that off.

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Ok I will file the sharp edges to smooth the stop/sound pick up post.

I've heard if many people putting tape or heat shrink tubing over the stop to prevent the scratching but this would affect the ability of the timegrapher hear the watch.

 

Thanks again.

 

Tom

 

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Putting tape on that metal piece which is sharp makes little to no difference to the pickup of the microphone. I do just that and get a good signal with no problems. I've tested it both ways on my 1900 and a bit of tape works a treat.

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Hi everyone, I have a Timegrapher 1900 and I could not live without it !. I think that it is an excellent bit of kit for the money. Years ago I had a Vibrograph and other things left to me and I disposed of the lot for almost nothing. I should have kept the spring winder tho. 

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On 9/14/2014 at 12:54 AM, haratua said:

The newer Timegrapher 1000 works on Co-axials as well as option to manually select the beat rate. My understanding is that the limitations of the older 1000 (as per Mark's comments) were not hardware limitations but rather software's. If you get a new Timegrapher 1000 today you should be able to use it on Co-axial as well as manually select the beat rate. For common beat rate, you could just set it to Auto (e.g. 12000, 14400, 18000, 19800, 21600, 25200, 28800, 36000, 43200). For not so common beat rate, you can select manual beat rate.
 
The following is a video of my Omega Co-Axial 3313 on newer Timegrapher 1000 (DD position, Lift Angle 38 degree, Beat rate set to Auto).

 

 

Very much agree with the above as I have the new Witchi 1000 which does indeed work with my co-axial Omega cal 8800.

 

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