Jump to content
Legarm

Chinese Timegraphers

Recommended Posts

Sorry to hear that...

I primarily use it on the open movement, not so much on closed up watches where the sensitivity of the mic can be an issue.

And I make sure to place the mic right over the pallet fork/escapement area where the sound is created. A bit fiddling with the sensitivity and filter usually gives me workable data for adjustment of rate, beat and amplitude.

I have been thinking of sourcing/building an alternative mic but never got that far. Would be interesting to hear if anyone out there made any such attempts for this app.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A better mic would probably help. After your post I updated my ap but it didn’t seem to help a lot. I was working with the watch I had on- ‘76 9411 blue dial. 

Maybe it’s working but generally a watch that graphs like a shotgun blast doesn’t run well and this does. 

Maybe I’ll try a different watch tomorrow and see if it’s any better. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Tudor said:

I guess if it's a matter of accuracy, the investment is worth it to me. But, although I see a calibration port, I have no idea how to actually calibrate it... (I see no calibration tools out there) With regards to cheap measurement tools, as long as I can confirm the accuracy/repeatability I'm good. If a $10 tool can be calibrated to do the job, I'm good. Conversely, if I can't rely on (or confirm) the "cheap" tool, I am not afraid to spend a bit. (I have about four billion dollars in Snap-On automotive tools spanning three generations).

Price difference is not necessarily visual. I've done side-by-side comparison of a watch expert 2 and the 1000 and 1900. Casually with most comparisons they do really quite well it is not necessarily the visual things that make the difference. Witschi is a real company in existence in Switzerland. Some of the Chinese machines have the name WeiShi on them strangely enough it's not mentioned where their addresses is in their book. So they come from China warranty issues technical questions not going get any of that.

In a professional machine you get everything spelled out additional functions greater ranges nicer microphone. These are expected to run every single day in a watch shop. There is better audio processing in a noisy environment the Chinese machines can have problems. Or the ability to listen to your watch versus the irritating beeping sound. Frequency mode  tells the beats per hour of the watch.

Problem watches what does the timing machines do with them? The Chinese less intelligence so usually attempt to show you something where witschi decides that it will save you from the grief and not show you anything. But change the setting of the machine to rate only the machine is no longer trying to calculate amplitude & beat from something it can't you will usually get a display. Occasionally have to go to frequency mode if the machine just can't figure out what the timing is. Then extremes that really aren't important like extreme low amplitude. Chinese machines have a habit of not reading the right part of the waveform  display something that looks really nice visual the watch does not look nice witschi will go down the 70° which is definitely not a desirable amplitude..

This doesn't necessarily mean witschi was perfect with everything they do. The early days the Chinese would compare to the watch expert 2. In particular the display and they were right display isn't the best. Looks great except it's shiny everything reflects off of it try to photograph it very difficult usually get reflections off of all sorts of stuff. Even talked to another watchmaker he had to put pith wood under the machine to tip it at the right angle so they could see the display and not get the overhead lights. But that is no longer a problem they're all backlit now.

So if you're a professional watchmaker you're probably going to have a witschi. Or if you have lots of money or perhaps a timing machine obsession then those things will influence you. But the Chinese timing machines have one feature extremely important for this group that is there affordable. So the cost of a timing machine is no longer an excuse as to why you don't have one.Then it's important to remember  there is not just for timing of the watch  there really nice diagnostic tool providing you grasp what they're showing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m looking at timegraphers on Amazon and I think they are the same, just different branding and price:

Weishi
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Weishi-Timegrapher-NO-1900-Machine-Multifunction/dp/B0178B9DYM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1531166881&sr=8-2&keywords=timegrapher+1900

Eco-Worthy
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ECO-WORTHY-No-1900-Multifunction-Timegrapher-Mechanical/dp/B076WS9PGX/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1531166881&sr=8-1&keywords=timegrapher+1900

My guess is they are made in the same factory and they are the same thing but you never know. I’m hoping some you might know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I’m looking at timegraphers on Amazon and I think they are the same, just different branding and price:

Weishi
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Weishi-Timegrapher-NO-1900-Machine-Multifunction/dp/B0178B9DYM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1531166881&sr=8-2&keywords=timegrapher+1900

Eco-Worthy
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ECO-WORTHY-No-1900-Multifunction-Timegrapher-Mechanical/dp/B076WS9PGX/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1531166881&sr=8-1&keywords=timegrapher+1900

My guess is they are made in the same factory and they are the same thing but you never know. I’m hoping some you might know.

I would say YES ... the only difference being the "weishi" brand printed on one of the items, just to mimic "witschi" brand.
If you fell to take your chance about import taxes on AliExpress you can get that item much cheaper here http://s.aliexpress.com/nYJjyqI7?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard

Envoyé de mon Moto G (5) Plus en utilisant Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/13/2014 at 9:12 PM, Mark said:

The 1900 give you the option to manually select the beat. This can be very useful. The 1000 is very limited in this respect. Having said that, the 1000 is excellent for majority of watches you would work on, no good for co-axials but good for the most common beat ranges.

My 1900 does an excellent job, gives me a good low down on bal/esc cond. I could not live without it when servicing a watch.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

not sure if I'm interpreting your question correctly? So I've attached a couple of pictures showing the sensor found in the microphone. You have to disassemble the assembly to get to the sensor. Then if you want any more pictures of the inside of the 1000 let me i photographed everything when I had a part.

tgp2.JPG

tgp1.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So the sound is not picked up through the metal stop by contact with the watch.  My timegrapher's stop tends to scratch the watch so if I puts some tape or heat shrink on the metal stop it would not reduce the ability to measure the sounnd?

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

timing machine pickups are interesting they pick up the vibration of the watch. While the sound is a vibration they have to make physical contact with whatever they're picking up. So you cannot insulate the metal part because it has to make physical contact with the watch. the vibration picked up at the top  is transmitted down to the sensor. So any form of insulation preventing the vibration getting to the metal part means the pickup doesn't get anything either. So if it's scratching because there's a sharp edge you can smooth that off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok I will file the sharp edges to smooth the stop/sound pick up post.

I've heard if many people putting tape or heat shrink tubing over the stop to prevent the scratching but this would affect the ability of the timegrapher hear the watch.

 

Thanks again.

 

Tom

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Putting tape on that metal piece which is sharp makes little to no difference to the pickup of the microphone. I do just that and get a good signal with no problems. I've tested it both ways on my 1900 and a bit of tape works a treat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi everyone, I have a Timegrapher 1900 and I could not live without it !. I think that it is an excellent bit of kit for the money. Years ago I had a Vibrograph and other things left to me and I disposed of the lot for almost nothing. I should have kept the spring winder tho. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/14/2014 at 12:54 AM, haratua said:

The newer Timegrapher 1000 works on Co-axials as well as option to manually select the beat rate. My understanding is that the limitations of the older 1000 (as per Mark's comments) were not hardware limitations but rather software's. If you get a new Timegrapher 1000 today you should be able to use it on Co-axial as well as manually select the beat rate. For common beat rate, you could just set it to Auto (e.g. 12000, 14400, 18000, 19800, 21600, 25200, 28800, 36000, 43200). For not so common beat rate, you can select manual beat rate.
 
The following is a video of my Omega Co-Axial 3313 on newer Timegrapher 1000 (DD position, Lift Angle 38 degree, Beat rate set to Auto).

 

 

Very much agree with the above as I have the new Witchi 1000 which does indeed work with my co-axial Omega cal 8800.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Similar Content

    • By Padd
      Hello Everyone,
      Padd here from the UK.
      It all started with a desire to fix a Submariner replica I bought off a lucky lucky man in Pisa, Italy while on a European tour.
      Next thing I know I'm investigating Submariner replicas and building my own, signed by me, using a Seagull ST2130 movement, adventure watch.
      Now I'm hooked, I took inspiration from Marks videos, now I'm happily starting to work on parts of the movement, and have recovered one or two movements where the stem came out, but wouldn't stay back in. I have built a few watches for friends and relations, but now I need to be able to service them when they come back to me.
      I also have a couple of movements that run really badly, so I will be practising on those over the winter weekends. Full repair/servicing kit IS my Christmas present.
      I really want to get one of those ST2130's, serviced and tweaked by me, doing a -------------------------- on my timegrapher. not a -.'-.'''--,'.'.' (and worse) that they do at the moment.
      I wont start to list my watch collection, but it runs from a Casio digital to a Rolex pocket watch with Seikos, Citizens, Omegas and home builds in the mix.
      Must do Mark's course, but I'm afraid I may have already learned 60+% of it already.

    • By PJA
      Just in case, I came across this "Watch-O-Scope" software. To those who have a need for it. Also here is an instructional video how to install. I hope it will help somebody here.
    • By maclerche
      I have gotten hold on a Elma Star vibrograf. Does anyone know if you can still buy paper and carbon for this machine?  
       

    • By SteveT
      I was wondering how do the timegrapher phone app's out there compare to a dedicated bench top machine. I'm guessing it's all down to the piezoelectric pickup? I installed tickoprint on my phone the other day. But to get the full features you need to shell out $30, if you then also have to shell out for a piezoelectric mic, then you are almost at the same price point as a cheap chinese bench top machine!
       
  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • I use 3 and 4 jaw chucks, large and small on a "compound lathe".   how does a " bezel - chuck" grab a crystol?  with a 4 jaw,  you invert the jaws and grab the inside so you can cut the outer diameter.   do they make chucks for jewelers lathes?   vin
    • Today, we have a big chunk of 1973 in the form of a Timex Viscount automatic day/date. This repair fought me every step of the way. It arrived with the winder connected to fresh air, and needed a complete strip down to get everything back in order. The day detent spring was misaligned, the date wheel was misaligned, the winder weight was loose, the thing was filthy both inside and out, and even getting the back off initially was problematic. I probably spent a good half hour simply trying to figure out why the day wheel refused to co-operate before I noticed the spring wasn't actually doing anything when the disk was re-fitted, due to the spring being in the wrong orientation. I suspect it got a good hard knock at some stage, which dislodged a bunch of stuff, possibly due to the frustration of the previous owner, as a result of the day wheel not turning. Everything is now all back in order, the hands are correctly aligned, the day and date kick over correctly at midnight. It is ticking away with that characteristic Timex chonk-chonk-chonk and winding nicely. I'm not sure it is going to stay on the hair puller band, I may swap it to something a little more comfortable, as I don't particularly enjoy the bald arm patches look, and my Nordic neanderthal genes mean that my arms are particularly furry. This is what it looked like when it arrived. I'll keep it on for today, and regulate it tomorrow once everything has settled down from the surgery, but it is keeping pretty good time so far. The crystal polished up well, but I still need to give the case back a quick whizz with the polishing pad to get rid of some apprentice marks, probably due to some previous owner's attempts to open the thing.
    • It's, of course, a counterfeit, and not even that well made. Below how a genuine similar one looks like, from Chrono24. As suggested you should open it not just for curiosity but to check if there is water ingress or battery leaking.
    • Hi Gents,   Currently, I try to recondition a 1970 Regency chronograph with a Landeron 248 movement.  Everything is going fine so far. Ordered new mainspring, glass, gasket and pushers as they were a bit stiff. The case itself has been replated as it was also quite worn. I dismantled the whole movement and this is where I have some problem and I would like to ask more experienced members' opinion as I am only a novice. Straight to the issue, I could not remove the 4th wheel. For me, it seems that the bottom of the 4th wheel pivot was formerly broken but still long enough to sit in the 4th wheel bottom jewel hole. In addition, it looks that a small pipe or so was fitted from the bottom plate to the end of the 4th wheel pinion. And this is the reason that I cannot remove it.  Could it have happened as I detailed above or it is a normal thing? Should I remove it anyway and change the whole 4th wheel or the pinion if I can manage to find a replacement. What can be done? what do you suggest? After this, I decided to carry on like that and at the end when I will measure the accuracy, it should show some really bad results in case if there is any affection. And now got to the second issue. So, at the end of the cleaning, I found a small pin in the bottom of the horosolv jar. I managed to find its place. However, I am not quite sure how to fit it again. To be honest, I cannot see its purpose really. From the bottom end, it is underneath the setting lever, and from the top plate also it sticks out hardly any.  Have you got any idea how to solve these problems?   Sorry for the poor quality of the pictures. Hope they help though. Please detail your answers as I am just a beginner. Any help is much appreciated. Gabe   P.S.: Please ignore the notes on some of the images which are not related to my issues. Thanks.    
    • Thanks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
×
×
  • Create New...