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Chinese Timegraphers


Legarm

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When it came time for me to buy mine I just went on to ebay and got one of many basic timegraphers sold there, believe my model is the no.1000, which looks to be 120, so pretty slap bang in your range.

It works well, has decent build quality, it measures rate, amplitude and beat error, and has a mute so you dont have to hear it tick, a pause function and some other more advanced options such as manual paramater settings and lift angle settings. 

I have no complaints. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Timegrapher-Watch-Timing-Machine-Multifunction-Tester-NO-1000-CE-UK-Shipping/301966015167?epid=909412595&hash=item464e93babf:g:whIAAOSwOdpXy~QE

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For the price range you have The 1000 is the only thing that will come in that price range as mentioned above. If you have a little more money  I think the  LCD display is a little nicer on the 1900.. Unfortunately the cost is a little more looks like approximately £150 and shipping doesn't appear to be  included. Then for eBay do a search for either machine  there does seem to be quite a price variation..

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  • 6 months later...

Hey guys.

 

I'm looking into a timegrapher. Currently I time my watches the old-fashioned way (time them against my iPhone stopwatch, or overnight) and I'd like a faster way, as I MAY branch out to servicing movemnts for others. I'd like to check all the normal positions and the overnight test method, while accurate, is frankly a PITA. I'm sure one of the eBay specials are fine for my needs, but I see they offer several models (1000, 1500 etc.)  and I'm having a hard time seeing the differences between them.

basically, is it a waste of money for a "fancier" (higher number) model or are there real advantages to "paying now" rather than "paying more later"?

I work with ETA's (and variants) so, Tudor, Omega (so co-axial escapement may be an issue?) and Rolex. I may get into some older stuff but I think they have beat rates and lift angles well covered, from what I read on the various seller's listings. I'd love to get a Seiko high-beat (or another brand) because of that S M O O T H sweep... Mesmerizing...

So I guess I'm asking from either an owner, or others looking's perspective, what features do you find are "essential" and what can you live without/don't care about? Do you own a "1000" for example and wish you bought a "higher" model? Did you buy the "higher" model and realize you don't need the added features (whatever they are)?

Thanks to all.

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For most people the 1000 or 1900 which is a little nicer screen and a couple of other features is perfectly suitable. The Chinese machines are interesting in that for the most part there aren't really additional features with more money. Basically the screen size layout changes. If you want additional features you have to go to the Swiss like witschi. So when you go to machine made by witschi the price goes up considerably so does the quality it's basically a professional instrument and it does have lots of other features.

I put links below the ace timer according to the list will do the co-axial escapement . But the slightly used ace time or I picked up off of eBay doesn't appear to have any way to do that? Then for a witschi their watch expert now in the fourth generation is usually the least expensive machine. Don't know what the current price is but typically around $3000. So with which either getting a professional machine designed the run every single day in a shop as it definite quality difference at least with the microphone. But there is that really huge price difference. So links below so you can compare the specifications.

http://www.acetimer.com/Watch-and-Pocket-Watch-Timing-Machine-Multifunction-Timegrapher-1000.html

https://www.witschi.com/en/group-of-devices/measurement-of-mechanical-watches/watch-expert/watch-expert.html

 

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There are various threads about timegrapheres if you take the time to use the search function. I will pin up the best one as that's a FAQ.

I definitely recommend the 1900 over the 1000.

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I purchased the 1900 after some research. I would if room and the money go for software based system such as the Graham Baxter system because it can be used for clocks as well as watches. I think Mark has a vid on this very subject.

 

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5 hours ago, jdm said:

There are various threads about timegrapheres if you take the time to use the search function. I will pin up the best one as that's a FAQ.

I definitely recommend the 1900 over the 1000.

Hmmm... the very first thing I did was put “timegrapher “ in the search box and came up with nothing, expecting a flood to dig through. 

I am on a few boards, mod at one so I know the score. 

I appreciate the links and will take a look. 

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  • jdm pinned this topic
1 hour ago, Tudor said:

Hmmm... the very first thing I did was put “timegrapher “ in the search box and came up with nothing, expecting a flood to dig through.  

Maybe something with the search options. Comprehensive topic now pinned. 

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9 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

For most people the 1000 or 1900 which is a little nicer screen and a couple of other features is perfectly suitable. The Chinese machines are interesting in that for the most part there aren't really additional features with more money. Basically the screen size layout changes. If you want additional features you have to go to the Swiss like witschi. So when you go to machine made by witschi the price goes up considerably so does the quality it's basically a professional instrument and it does have lots of other features.

I put links below the ace timer according to the list will do the co-axial escapement . But the slightly used ace time or I picked up off of eBay doesn't appear to have any way to do that? Then for a witschi their watch expert now in the fourth generation is usually the least expensive machine. Don't know what the current price is but typically around $3000. So with which either getting a professional machine designed the run every single day in a shop as it definite quality difference at least with the microphone. But there is that really huge price difference. So links below so you can compare the specifications.

http://www.acetimer.com/Watch-and-Pocket-Watch-Timing-Machine-Multifunction-Timegrapher-1000.html

https://www.witschi.com/en/group-of-devices/measurement-of-mechanical-watches/watch-expert/watch-expert.html

 

Thank you John, I appreciate the links. I can't justify the significant expense for a "pro" machine, based on the hours of use it will actually receive. I can replace the cheap one several times before I am at the price point.

I guess if it's a matter of accuracy, the investment is worth it to me. But, although I see a calibration port, I have no idea how to actually calibrate it... (I see no calibration tools out there) With regards to cheap measurement tools, as long as I can confirm the accuracy/repeatability I'm good. If a $10 tool can be calibrated to do the job, I'm good. Conversely, if I can't rely on (or confirm) the "cheap" tool, I am not afraid to spend a bit. (I have about four billion dollars in Snap-On automotive tools spanning three generations).

5 hours ago, clockboy said:

I purchased the 1900 after some research. I would if room and the money go for software based system such as the Graham Baxter system because it can be used for clocks as well as watches. I think Mark has a vid on this very subject.

 

This didn't even dawn on me... PCs are dirt cheap. Get software and a good mic/stand... Looking into this now! Thank you!

 

 

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1 hour ago, jdm said:

Maybe something with the search options. Comprehensive topic now pinned. 

Yeah, I thought it was odd too- I expected to find a ton on that subject.

I will try again and look around. Although I've received good replies here, I'll compile more data.

PS Thank you for not flaming me!

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Hi,

I’m a bit surprised not more people use and discuss this Iphone/Ipad app. The only weak point I find is the mic (uses the regular headset mic) that can be a bit fiddly to place where you want it.

Apart from that it gives all the information I need in a very similar graphics format as the chinese tabletop versions at a fraction of the cost.

179771a7d08afc00705bb78c860e0340.jpg


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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I actually have this ap and I’ve never got it to work well for me. 

So then I don’t know if it’s a mic problem or movement problem...

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Sorry to hear that...

I primarily use it on the open movement, not so much on closed up watches where the sensitivity of the mic can be an issue.

And I make sure to place the mic right over the pallet fork/escapement area where the sound is created. A bit fiddling with the sensitivity and filter usually gives me workable data for adjustment of rate, beat and amplitude.

I have been thinking of sourcing/building an alternative mic but never got that far. Would be interesting to hear if anyone out there made any such attempts for this app.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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A better mic would probably help. After your post I updated my ap but it didn’t seem to help a lot. I was working with the watch I had on- ‘76 9411 blue dial. 

Maybe it’s working but generally a watch that graphs like a shotgun blast doesn’t run well and this does. 

Maybe I’ll try a different watch tomorrow and see if it’s any better. 

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18 hours ago, Tudor said:

I guess if it's a matter of accuracy, the investment is worth it to me. But, although I see a calibration port, I have no idea how to actually calibrate it... (I see no calibration tools out there) With regards to cheap measurement tools, as long as I can confirm the accuracy/repeatability I'm good. If a $10 tool can be calibrated to do the job, I'm good. Conversely, if I can't rely on (or confirm) the "cheap" tool, I am not afraid to spend a bit. (I have about four billion dollars in Snap-On automotive tools spanning three generations).

Price difference is not necessarily visual. I've done side-by-side comparison of a watch expert 2 and the 1000 and 1900. Casually with most comparisons they do really quite well it is not necessarily the visual things that make the difference. Witschi is a real company in existence in Switzerland. Some of the Chinese machines have the name WeiShi on them strangely enough it's not mentioned where their addresses is in their book. So they come from China warranty issues technical questions not going get any of that.

In a professional machine you get everything spelled out additional functions greater ranges nicer microphone. These are expected to run every single day in a watch shop. There is better audio processing in a noisy environment the Chinese machines can have problems. Or the ability to listen to your watch versus the irritating beeping sound. Frequency mode  tells the beats per hour of the watch.

Problem watches what does the timing machines do with them? The Chinese less intelligence so usually attempt to show you something where witschi decides that it will save you from the grief and not show you anything. But change the setting of the machine to rate only the machine is no longer trying to calculate amplitude & beat from something it can't you will usually get a display. Occasionally have to go to frequency mode if the machine just can't figure out what the timing is. Then extremes that really aren't important like extreme low amplitude. Chinese machines have a habit of not reading the right part of the waveform  display something that looks really nice visual the watch does not look nice witschi will go down the 70° which is definitely not a desirable amplitude..

This doesn't necessarily mean witschi was perfect with everything they do. The early days the Chinese would compare to the watch expert 2. In particular the display and they were right display isn't the best. Looks great except it's shiny everything reflects off of it try to photograph it very difficult usually get reflections off of all sorts of stuff. Even talked to another watchmaker he had to put pith wood under the machine to tip it at the right angle so they could see the display and not get the overhead lights. But that is no longer a problem they're all backlit now.

So if you're a professional watchmaker you're probably going to have a witschi. Or if you have lots of money or perhaps a timing machine obsession then those things will influence you. But the Chinese timing machines have one feature extremely important for this group that is there affordable. So the cost of a timing machine is no longer an excuse as to why you don't have one.Then it's important to remember  there is not just for timing of the watch  there really nice diagnostic tool providing you grasp what they're showing.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I’m looking at timegraphers on Amazon and I think they are the same, just different branding and price:

Weishi
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Weishi-Timegrapher-NO-1900-Machine-Multifunction/dp/B0178B9DYM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1531166881&sr=8-2&keywords=timegrapher+1900

Eco-Worthy
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ECO-WORTHY-No-1900-Multifunction-Timegrapher-Mechanical/dp/B076WS9PGX/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1531166881&sr=8-1&keywords=timegrapher+1900

My guess is they are made in the same factory and they are the same thing but you never know. I’m hoping some you might know.

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I’m looking at timegraphers on Amazon and I think they are the same, just different branding and price:

Weishi
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Weishi-Timegrapher-NO-1900-Machine-Multifunction/dp/B0178B9DYM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1531166881&sr=8-2&keywords=timegrapher+1900

Eco-Worthy
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ECO-WORTHY-No-1900-Multifunction-Timegrapher-Mechanical/dp/B076WS9PGX/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1531166881&sr=8-1&keywords=timegrapher+1900

My guess is they are made in the same factory and they are the same thing but you never know. I’m hoping some you might know.

I would say YES ... the only difference being the "weishi" brand printed on one of the items, just to mimic "witschi" brand.
If you fell to take your chance about import taxes on AliExpress you can get that item much cheaper here http://s.aliexpress.com/nYJjyqI7?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard

Envoyé de mon Moto G (5) Plus en utilisant Tapatalk

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On 9/13/2014 at 9:12 PM, Mark said:

The 1900 give you the option to manually select the beat. This can be very useful. The 1000 is very limited in this respect. Having said that, the 1000 is excellent for majority of watches you would work on, no good for co-axials but good for the most common beat ranges.

My 1900 does an excellent job, gives me a good low down on bal/esc cond. I could not live without it when servicing a watch.

 

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