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Chinese Timegraphers


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I now considering a purchase of a timegrapher. China models is probably my immediate choice, but I have this and other hobbies learned that you sometimes might as well spend a little more since otherwise i often regret later and then must buy again.
I can read here and there that the Chinese model works fine, but what model required for example to measure a watch with Co-axial, the model 1000, 1900 or 3000 ??

Does anyone have experience with this ??

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I have the 1900 which has a colour display to help with beat setting, and I'm very happy with it.

I believe it will give a meaningful timing signal on a co-axial escapement, but will not give a meaningful amplitude measurement. For this you would probably  need to add a zero to your budget.

S

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  • 3 months later...
On 4/21/2016 at 8:17 AM, jdm said:

For 15x the money of the Chinese one, you get a bigger display (that is harder to read), and it shows exactly the same beat rate, amplitude, etc. as the Chinese one. Down to the last s/d. But you can do Omega co-axial escapements on it, so there is some advantage. And I can call myself serious now 

There are differences beyond the display size of why someone would pay roughly $3000 versus 225 for a 1900. But for most hobbyists you're never going to notice the difference. I have actually done side-by-side comparison with a Witschi Watch Expert II and the 1000 1900 Chinese machines. Overall for the money the Chinese machines are outstanding but if you're really going to nitpicky about it the Swiss machines have some differences.

So let's look at one of the most interesting features I find with the Chinese machines which is who actually makes them? For instance Swiss Timing machine company witschi You can look them up them website they physically exist they have distributors if you had a problem somebody could help you with it. The Chinese machines it's almost impossible to track down where they actually come from. Not that that's a problem because at the price who cares. Then the internal software to run the machines seems to come in two separate types. To explain that I have a image below. So some of the Chinese machines have limited ranges versus the 1900 or 1000. Then if you look at all the different physical sizes their actual characteristics don't really change is not really much advantage of buying a bigger machine. Although as pointed out above if you get the right machine you can use a printer with it. But if you are planning a getting a machine with a printer get it at the time don't plan on adding it later as I've seen the machines without printers don't have the right software to run the printer it's a separate chip.

So one of the features missing from the Chinese machine found on the Swiss is frequency mode. Suppose you're doing American pocket watch someplace swap the hairspring or it's missing a timing screw it's running hopelessly fast slow or something not even close to 18,000 beats per hour and frequency mode It will tell you exactly what frequency it's running at.. 

Other things External audio noise such as an electric shaver in my case. The Chinese machine was showing absolute garbage on the screen the Swiss was working fine. But if the noise is large enough the right frequencies all the timing machines while problems. At work we had problems with one of the cleaning machines so is banished to another room.

Then this one I've seen before if the amplitude is too low sometimes the Chinese machine will pick up the wrong part of the waveform giving the impression of a much higher amplitude.

So I'm attaching some images. For those of you who like naked electronics like I do the inside of the 1000, 1900 and watch expert II. Then two examples of what the timing machine shows timing of the same watch. Yes if you're clever you can clip both microphones on the same watch at the same time. You don't always get the exact same results because both machines are averaging at slightly different places in the waveform. So you can see the Chinese machine in this case the 1000 is doing very well on a watch that's magnetized. The peculiar sine wave is an indication of a watch that's magnetized.  Then we see another example of the extremely low amplitude the Chinese machine is confused.

 

 

 

 

 

timing.JPG

t1.JPG

t2.JPG

t3.JPG

t3-.JPG

t4.JPG

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Very informative as the usual John, In fact I have quite few negative comments about by Chinese 1000, it works for what I do but is far from being a good deal for the money paid, at least in this millennium. 15 years perhaps it was.

  1. Pathetic display straight from the 80s. I think it cost more for the factory to stil buy these rather than newer types
  2. Total lack of features like saving / averaging results over time
  3. No NV memory to save at least the lift angle, mute setting etc.
  4. Synthesized speaker sound, which basically makes it useless.

All that way before asking for real features like a PC interface, etc. I still like it better than an app because it has an decent mike stand and is always ready to use unlike a tablet or PC.

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6 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

So I'm attaching some images. For those of you who like naked electronics like I do the inside of the 1000, 1900 and watch expert II.

Interesting that the Witschi PCB design seems to be early-mid 90s or thereabouts, all through-hole. The Chinese ones are of a much more modern design (I have a 1900).

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5 hours ago, jdm said:

Very informative as the usual John, In fact I have quite few negative comments about by Chinese 1000, it works for what I do but is far from being a good deal for the money paid, at least in this millennium. 15 years perhaps it was.

  1. Pathetic display straight from the 80s. I think it cost more for the factory to stil buy these rather than newer types
  2. Total lack of features like saving / averaging results over time
  3. No NV memory to save at least the lift angle, mute setting etc.
  4. Synthesized speaker sound, which basically makes it useless.

All that way before asking for real features like a PC interface, etc. I still like it better than an app because it has an decent mike stand and is always ready to use unlike a tablet or PC.

Thanks for reminding me I totally forgot about the horrible beeping sound that you always turn off because can't stand to listen to it. Having actual audio of the watch ticking is really nice when you're looking at garbage on the display. Often times you can hear if the hairspring for instances bumping into things that makes a interesting ringing sound.

What would be really nice is to find out who actually makes the 1000/1900 timing machine and have a talk with them. A lot of the additional things we want is basically software. Then for display even the Swiss machine I would really like to have twice the number of pixels and the screen is too shiny. It's very very hard to get a picture without getting lights reflecting on the screen a reflection of me the camera something it's really hard to get a picture of.

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2 hours ago, teegee said:

Interesting that the Witschi PCB design seems to be early-mid 90s or thereabouts, all through-hole. The Chinese ones are of a much more modern design (I have a 1900).

Yes the circuit board does look like something ancient but supposedly it's leadfree it's not super old. Then the actual purchase date of this September 2006. So basically it was the cheapest timing machine they had at the time.

My suspicion of why the circuit board is old is that it probably is. Why Update or change what you have if you don't have to? So the hardware is old but the internal programs been updated. Then when you go to the third generation they change the screen and add in some additional functions I have no idea if the hardware is changed at all.

Then I heard an interesting story have no idea where I heard this. The printer for these is hard to find because the control codes to send the graphics are based on a printer that doesn't exist and hasn't existed for a very long time. So whoever wrote the original printer software is still used several generations later. Probably because it worked and they probably didn't figure anyone would be cheap And went to buy the printer somewhere else. Fortunately there is at least one company that has a printer that emulates and will do the graphics cheaply.

So there modern timing machines are becoming less hardware-based more computer programs. So here's their fourth-generation machine looks quite interesting. Looks like it has the same price as the third generation machine which was just slightly more expensive than the second generation machine. Although it's still really really expensive compared to the Chinese machine.

http://www.witschi.com/assets/files/Watch_Expert-Leaflet.pdf

 

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  • 1 month later...

Hello everyone,

I'm in search of a timegrapher machine and not finding many options.

The Chinese model 6000 caught my attention but I couldn't find any reviews about it.

e7bbef8904d895c51a4e8f9317fe1619.png

Any suggestions or advice?

Any place to find used quality machines?

Thank you much for the advice.

JG

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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7 hours ago, jguitron said:

 

Hello everyone,

I'm in search of a timegrapher machine and not finding many options.

The Chinese model 6000 caught my attention but I couldn't find any reviews about it.

e7bbef8904d895c51a4e8f9317fe1619.png

Any suggestions or advice?

Any place to find used quality machines?

Thank you much for the advice.

JG

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

on ebay £135 sterling

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19 hours ago, jguitron said:

I'm in search of a timegrapher machine and not finding many options.

The Chinese model 6000 caught my attention but I couldn't find any reviews about it.

Any suggestions or advice?

Any place to find used quality machines?

If you search on this very forum there are various discussions about Chinese machine with pro and cons explained.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...
16 minutes ago, jdm said:

There are few places, one is timegraphers.com that list each model features. Also I recall SSTEEL here has recently bought a complete 3000 system.

Indeed, will be set up once we move back into our own larger premises.  The trusty 1000 will be up for grabs in the new year.

Its actually the TYMC 9900A I recently upgraded to.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/tymc-mtg9900a

Edited by SSTEEL
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