Mainspring Winders

[jdm 2436]

1 hour ago, nickelsilver said:

A big problem with vintage winders is often the arbors are very large in diameter compared to modern watches. Sometimes you can use a smaller arbor in a larger winder barrel and it works ok, sometimes it's just a big pain. Even if you have a vintage full set of Bergeons and a modern set, you still run into situations where it's all a big compromise. Also, often the hook on old winder arbors is waaay too long; this can kink the spring in addition to making it really hard to seat and unseat the hook in the hole. I always check the hook on unknown older winders and redress the hook as needed.

What about going the extra mile and making the winder parts needed. Surely, lath milling and filing skills needed or CNC if available to you, but for a competent watchmaker it should be no major hurdle. Beside I can tell for sure you would be able to easily sell the ones  for Seiko.

[nickelsilver 1396]

25 minutes ago, jdm said:

What about going the extra mile and making the winder parts needed. Surely, lath milling and filing skills needed or CNC if available to you, but for a competent watchmaker it should be no major hurdle. Beside I can tell for sure you would be able to easily sell the ones  for Seiko.

VWatchie posted a winder he'd found a couple of years ago that was a revelation. Never seen one like it and it really covered all the bases. I actually started gathering material and drawing it up but work got in the way.

[MechanicMike 175]

On 12/16/2020 at 1:55 PM, nickelsilver said:

VWatchie posted a winder he'd found a couple of years ago that was a revelation.

did a little digging on this and couldn't find it. still planning on making one? I'd be curious to see what it looks like.

[honeybee50 3]

Thanks for all the cool advice... the mainspring winder did not fit my practice piece which was from an old Timex watch... I tried several different sizes of barrels which are not marked....... Therefore I ended up putting the mainspring back by using the most undesirable practice, by hand my first............. this did not cost me nothing but a little time.  I kinda  like winding the main spring by hand.   HOW IS THE k&d MAINSPRING WINDER? I think i am going to send the vigor back for a refund.....if I purchase the The K&D model. 

[Extractor 2]

Being very, very new to this watch repair lark, I have been flea baying to see what I could find with regards to mainspring winders. 

Came across this for less than £5 but it does not have any of the attachments I have seen with other similar winders. I vaguely resembles a winder on the Cousins site. 

The handle turns anti clockwise. 

I this a wasted fiver or potentially use able? 

Thanks. 

[HectorLooi 311]

Welcome to WRT.

I have one of these too. But it is for clock mainsprings not watches. Keep it. You'll never know when you'll need it for a clock.

[Extractor 2]

You are right, when I re-read the Cousins info I belatedly spotted the fact that it was a clock mainspring winder. I will definitely keep it. Thanks for responding!

[JRH 0]

Bought a 6 piece Watch-Craft set from ebay, needed some TLC and they all are working and move smoothly and free.  What I was not expecting (I'm a noob), was it wasnt as simple as I expected to be able to hold, wind, and keep the spring from exploding out of the winder.  Im using a few cheap ebay mainsprings as practice without worrying about permanent damage.  

Having fun and getting better with the mainsprings, but hairspings well, thats another matter.  Seems if I breath in the same room as a hairspring it decides to tangle. 

[Klassiker 216]

I've given up on the idea of a comprehensive, affordable set of mainspring winders. A new spring is cheap and goes in so easily!

By no means am I  an expert with hairsprings, but repairing them is a question of the right tools and lots of practice. If you are tangling them, then you are handling the balance wrong. Watch how Mark and other professionals so it, and practise using the same techniques.

Hot Tip! If a fly lands on your finger when you are working, remove the tip of your tweezers from the hairspring before swatting it with your free hand.

[Kobus 1]

Noob - sorry

1. On the Bergeon site they have a 2795. Both in ETA and non ETA. Pic 1. What is the difference? Can the non ETA not be used on an ETA movement and vice versa?

2. Second pic, how would I know if this is ETA or "normal".

[spectre6000 205]

You wouldn't. It's about barrel sizes. The ETA set is sized (and I'm sure labeled) according to common ETA movements. Generic sets are sized by unit measurements (mm). If you do a lot of ETA stuff, it's probably nice to have, and you can always use the nearest size for whatever non-ETA movement. The generic set would be easier to use since the intervals will be more regular, and there's nothing special about ETA barrels that will keep them from working with the ETA movements in the same way there's nothing that would keep the ETA sized set from working with non-ETA movements.

A word on the Chinese winders (possibly dated information), Mark did a video a while back where he did a pretty comprehensive analysis. It was a bit on the critical side, but the big takeaway for me was the shafts being brass. As a hobbyist, it could be a while before you eat through one, but it could also be a single simple mistake. The Chinese manufacturers seem to be pretty good about keeping up with things like that, but I don't know how much noise has been made or if it's been made in the right places to catch the right ears for anything to have changed.

[mikepilk 180]

On 12/16/2020 at 6:30 PM, nickelsilver said:

It's a never ending strife, I watched a Finnish watchmaker lose about a year of his life from stress mucking around with a problem spring and he's an amazing watchmaker. In the end I wound it in by hand for him, mostly out of fear that he would start destroying the workshop (yes you can wind them in by hand without damage but it takes practice).

Hi @nickelsilver. Would you please explain the correct way to hand wind a mainspring?
From comments above, I believe quite a few people would be interested.

I've recently been working on a couple of Seiko automatics which have been driving me crazy getting the springs in. As they are left handed,  I first have to use a smaller winder, and transfer to a washer. Unfortunately my next smaller winder is a bit too small, hence a broken the bridle. Then, when trying to fit it to the washer it pinged out, then .... etc etc

Edited January 14 by mikepilk

[nickelsilver 1396]

16 hours ago, mikepilk said:

Hi @nickelsilver. Would you please explain the correct way to hand wind a mainspring?
From comments above, I believe quite a few people would be interested.

 

It's a little hard to describe it. With automatics also it's quite easy to kink the spring just after the bridle too*, but here goes.

 

Get the spring started in the barrel, like the first turn in, as would feel natural (i.e. just do it). From there, you want to manipulate the spring, turning the part out of the barrel around by half turns until that bit will drop in, continuing until the spring is in. The important thing is to not stress the spring. It works with watches because almost inevitably you are working with a low profile barrel, compared to a typical clock for example. So a typical watch barrel might be 11mm inner diameter, spring 1.3 high, a 1:8.5 height to diameter ratio. A clock barrel might be 50mm diameter with a 25mm spring height- 1:2. So with the clock spring to get it out first of all the spring has to twist out of the barrel at an extreme angle, likewise going in, if not using a winder. With a watch spring the angle going out/in is quite small.

 

What some will do, the wrong way, is get it started, and then essentially force the coil in causing it to wrap itself up to the smaller diameter, stressing it. This is when you get a cone shaped spring.

 

* with automatics, the bridle is quite strong compared to the spring. Getting it started in the barrel is tricky, especially getting the last bit of bridle in before it's just mainspring. I would recommend a winder for any automatic if at all possible, or accept that you might put in a bend right after the bridle. Some are worse than others, El Primero springs are a real pain without a winder!

[mikepilk 180]

7 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

 with automatics, the bridle is quite strong compared to the spring. Getting it started in the barrel is tricky, especially getting the last bit of bridle in before it's just mainspring. I would recommend a winder for any automatic if at all possible, or accept that you might put in a bend right after the bridle. Some are worse than others, El Primero springs are a real pain without a winder!

You are right about automatics - the end bit of the bridle is very tricky, it won't wind straight in. I had to use tweezers to pull the end of the bridle in, before I could continue winding by hand.

I did manage your technique - form a small loop, then drop it in, rather than pushing it continuously in. I practiced on an old spring, and it was pretty flat when I took it out.

I would rather have used winders, but the barrel on Seiko 7002/7S26 is an odd size. I only have 9.5 and 10.6 mm winders. The 9.5 is too tight for the spring, and the 10.6 mm a touch too big for the barrel !

Anyway, it's in and running, with reasonable amplitude for a Seiko.

Ta

[gary17 26]

Hey

I like to check the mainspring on all the watches i look at which means i have to rewind them by hand and alas time has caught up with me and i find its a struggle. So i need to buy mainspring winders.

I cannot afford a set all in one go but hope to buy a couple now and again as  i go along.

The question is what size do i buy first in other words which size will i use more than any other. Then i can by that first and so on.

cheers

gary

[clockboy 1664]

If find one of these on ebay "Mastercraft" they work with most watches see pics to see how it works. PS I use this winder 95% of the time.

 

 

[gary17 26]

hey

Are they idiot proof i am trying to find them now.

googling

cheers

gary

[watchweasol 1672]

Hi Gary The only winders I have seen singly are bergeon ones approx £.60 each,you could almost get one with all the bits from ALI Express (china) for that price. I have attached a pic of one on Ebay at the moment about £27          They are not Idiot proof and a bad operator could kink a spring, depends how careful you are.        Cheers

[bojan1990 11]

Hello,

I am looking to buy a mainspring winder, since I would like to clean and put the mainsprings (worth putting back) into the barrels. This is something that I found but I am not sure if this is what I need. Mainly looking for a winder which could wind man's wristwatch mainsprings (for example, Seiko 5 or standard ETA movements).

Also, I am not sure if I am able to wind mainspring for automatic watch with this tool.

Thanks in advance!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 15 by bojan1990

[nickelsilver 1396]

These old mainspring winders aren't necessarily bad, but they almost without fail have arbors that are just far too big to work with modern springs. You can sometimes get by fitting a smaller arbor to the bigger barrel,  but it's usually a pain and requires almost more skill than hand winding the spring in.

[oldhippy 2806]

That's a very old one. 

[bojan1990 11]

I will skip it then. What about this one? I guess the arbors are still too big.

 

 

 

[oldhippy 2806]

The trouble her is you cannot tell if the hooks on the arbors are in good condition, you don't want them worn so they won't even hook the spring. I suppose you could ask the seller. It's still an old one. 

[AlanRH 4]

Hello People,

I hope this finds you all well and staying safe in these weird times, quick question, I am about to start lessons course three, and whilst I have amassed a decent tool collection on line, one thing I haven't yet acquired are mainspring winders, I do have one vintage one but looks to be for clocks and or larger pocket watches, I have looked on line and there are a fair few sets available and while not cheap, clearly will be needed if i am to carry on, however I am a little blown away and bemused by the various sets and the different numbers of movements they are for, is there a generic list of basic and more common movements that are ideal for the newbie in this respect? i have looked at so many with all the differing four numbered movements I fear have con-fuddled myself? help! 

Alan

[jdrichard 1000]

15 minutes ago, AlanRH said:

Hello People,

I hope this finds you all well and staying safe in these weird times, quick question, I am about to start lessons course three, and whilst I have amassed a decent tool collection on line, one thing I haven't yet acquired are mainspring winders, I do have one vintage one but looks to be for clocks and or larger pocket watches, I have looked on line and there are a fair few sets available and while not cheap, clearly will be needed if i am to carry on, however I am a little blown away and bemused by the various sets and the different numbers of movements they are for, is there a generic list of basic and more common movements that are ideal for the newbie in this respect? i have looked at so many with all the differing four numbered movements I fear have con-fuddled myself? help! 

Alan

I put mainsprings in by hand.... i use to do it with a variety of winders when I was a newbie but now find it a lot easier and more accurate to do this by hand.  I have made video on how to do this.