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Mainspring winders


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8 minutes ago, AshF said:

I was thinking about this a few months ago and produced some (rough) drawings of an adjustable tool.  A selection of barrels sizes can be used with a selection of arbor sizes (and directions) to create a set that would be universal.  You would only need one handle and one winder also to keep manufacturing down.  I'd be happy to collaborate on a project.

Oh this!!! Can we figure out costs and gauge interest perhaps?

I'd be excited about this as I'm exasperated by this dreadful gap in the market. Bergeon have the best tool out there but its limited, expensive and such an inefficient design.

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13 hours ago, Tudor said:

Well, lets see the drawings that do exist and go from there.

I can certainly make these by hand, but I'm not making 40 of them that way... 

That's perfectly understandable. In my mind if there was a lot of interest they could be manufactured.

As much as I'd LOVE to have a set hand made by you, that's a big ask ?

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I think the love would fade fast once you saw the invoice...

More complex parts and assemblies get expensive fast. These are a good candidate for a production run due to that, which will also be expensive but review of costs may show we can do a nice set for a bit less than buying it. 

A detail that will control cost is to review the set and eliminate the ones that get zero use, or find a way to “recycle” as much as possible to cover several sizes. 
 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have this set. Agree highly functional for price but not quite as "solid" as much more expensive Swiss set which I also have. As to the rings, in my simple mind I thought they were just redundant and pretty useless "stands" for winder barrel handle. (And who would risk standing loaded handle on the eject button anyway??) IMHO they should have put the money and material into beefing up the winders a tad. No real complaints though.  Like I said, perfectly useable.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I purchased a watch mainspring winder .  The type of winder is called Vigor, mainspring winder,   you have 6 winders in the set........  MW 155, Swiss. Is anybody familiar with this brand and is is it worth the 95$ I paid for it? I am  new to replacing a  watch mainspring......my biggest concern is winding the mainspring and putting it in the wrong way.....how do you know if the mainspring should be  wind counter or clock wise? I  watched  several videos from you tube and i am still confused .... i do have several going barrels to practice on but if i can't identify the direction left or right then its futile .......I need HELP!  Does Mark have a video on this?  Can you use the same mainspring winder, for an automatic watch? Any and all suggestions wanted.

Thanks

 

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3 hours ago, honeybee50 said:

my biggest concern is winding the mainspring and putting it in the wrong way.....how do you know if the mainspring should be  wind counter or clock wise?

Look at the barrel arbor.
Identify the upper and lower pivots. so to place correctly into the barrel.
Check the hook at the center that has a flat protrusion, while the other side is tapered.
That flat must engage the flat cut that is toward the inner end of the mainspring.
Otherwise the mainspring cannot be wound.

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  watched  several videos from you tube and i am still confused ....

Videos are great but sometime you want the clear, plain language description from a good book and its illustrations. Recommend you get some beginner repairer ones.

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Can you use the same mainspring winder, for an automatic watch?

Yes. On an automatic you will have to manually guide the bridle into the drum at end.

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1 hour ago, honeybee50 said:

I purchased a watch mainspring winder .  The type of winder is called Vigor, mainspring winder,   you have 6 winders in the set........  MW 155, Swiss. Is anybody familiar with this brand and is is it worth the 95$ I paid for it? I am  new to replacing a  watch mainspring......my biggest concern is winding the mainspring and putting it in the wrong way.....how do you know if the mainspring should be  wind counter or clock wise? I  watched  several videos from you tube and i am still confused .... i do have several going barrels to practice on but if i can't identify the direction left or right then its futile .......I need HELP!  Does Mark have a video on this?  Can you use the same mainspring winder, for an automatic watch? Any and all suggestions wanted.

Thanks

 

Well, if you paid $95 and someone else was bidding then - Yes, it's worth $95 :-).

This forum and other forums, and Google will provide tons of photos and videos. Just search and read or watch and look and the photos.

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/15608-tight-fit-for-barrel-arbor-help/#comment-138927

 

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Most barrels have the cap at the bottom, facing the dial. In that case (with the exception of 8 day movements), the arbor will hook so that it winds anticlockwise. This means when you wind it into your winder, it is backwards so you want to wind clockwise.

 

A big problem with vintage winders is often the arbors are very large in diameter compared to modern watches. Sometimes you can use a smaller arbor in a larger winder barrel and it works ok, sometimes it's just a big pain. Even if you have a vintage full set of Bergeons and a modern set, you still run into situations where it's all a big compromise. Also, often the hook on old winder arbors is waaay too long; this can kink the spring in addition to making it really hard to seat and unseat the hook in the hole. I always check the hook on unknown older winders and redress the hook as needed.

 

With a perfect winder, for a non automatic watch, you have to be very careful when the spring is almost all the way in the winder. They want to slip in really fast those last few mm (it's like they know, like when you need a bathroom and you're finally near one) and you can snap the tongue off.

 

It's a never ending strife, I watched a Finnish watchmaker lose about a year of his life from stress mucking around with a problem spring and he's an amazing watchmaker. In the end I wound it in by hand for him, mostly out of fear that he would start destroying the workshop (yes you can wind them in by hand without damage but it takes practice).

Edited by nickelsilver
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1 hour ago, nickelsilver said:

A big problem with vintage winders is often the arbors are very large in diameter compared to modern watches. Sometimes you can use a smaller arbor in a larger winder barrel and it works ok, sometimes it's just a big pain. Even if you have a vintage full set of Bergeons and a modern set, you still run into situations where it's all a big compromise. Also, often the hook on old winder arbors is waaay too long; this can kink the spring in addition to making it really hard to seat and unseat the hook in the hole. I always check the hook on unknown older winders and redress the hook as needed.

What about going the extra mile and making the winder parts needed. Surely, lath milling and filing skills needed or CNC if available to you, but for a competent watchmaker it should be no major hurdle. Beside I can tell for sure you would be able to easily sell the ones  for Seiko.

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25 minutes ago, jdm said:

What about going the extra mile and making the winder parts needed. Surely, lath milling and filing skills needed or CNC if available to you, but for a competent watchmaker it should be no major hurdle. Beside I can tell for sure you would be able to easily sell the ones  for Seiko.

VWatchie posted a winder he'd found a couple of years ago that was a revelation. Never seen one like it and it really covered all the bases. I actually started gathering material and drawing it up but work got in the way.

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On 12/16/2020 at 1:55 PM, nickelsilver said:

VWatchie posted a winder he'd found a couple of years ago that was a revelation.

did a little digging on this and couldn't find it. still planning on making one? I'd be curious to see what it looks like.

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Thanks for all the cool advice... the mainspring winder did not fit my practice piece which was from an old Timex watch... I tried several different sizes of barrels which are not marked....... Therefore I ended up putting the mainspring back by using the most undesirable practice, by hand my first............. this did not cost me nothing but a little time.  I kinda  like winding the main spring by hand.   HOW IS THE k&d MAINSPRING WINDER? I think i am going to send the vigor back for a refund.....if I purchase the The K&D model. 

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Being very, very new to this watch repair lark, I have been flea baying to see what I could find with regards to mainspring winders. 

Came across this for less than £5 but it does not have any of the attachments I have seen with other similar winders. I vaguely resembles a winder on the Cousins site. 

The handle turns anti clockwise. 

I this a wasted fiver or potentially use able? 

Thanks. 

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IMG_20201222_134423.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

Bought a 6 piece Watch-Craft set from ebay, needed some TLC and they all are working and move smoothly and free.  What I was not expecting (I'm a noob), was it wasnt as simple as I expected to be able to hold, wind, and keep the spring from exploding out of the winder.  Im using a few cheap ebay mainsprings as practice without worrying about permanent damage.  

Having fun and getting better with the mainsprings, but hairspings well, thats another matter.  Seems if I breath in the same room as a hairspring it decides to tangle.  ?

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I've given up on the idea of a comprehensive, affordable set of mainspring winders. A new spring is cheap and goes in so easily!

By no means am I  an expert with hairsprings, but repairing them is a question of the right tools and lots of practice. If you are tangling them, then you are handling the balance wrong. Watch how Mark and other professionals so it, and practise using the same techniques.

Hot Tip! If a fly lands on your finger when you are working, remove the tip of your tweezers from the hairspring before swatting it with your free hand.

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  • 2 weeks later...

You wouldn't. It's about barrel sizes. The ETA set is sized (and I'm sure labeled) according to common ETA movements. Generic sets are sized by unit measurements (mm). If you do a lot of ETA stuff, it's probably nice to have, and you can always use the nearest size for whatever non-ETA movement. The generic set would be easier to use since the intervals will be more regular, and there's nothing special about ETA barrels that will keep them from working with the ETA movements in the same way there's nothing that would keep the ETA sized set from working with non-ETA movements.

A word on the Chinese winders (possibly dated information), Mark did a video a while back where he did a pretty comprehensive analysis. It was a bit on the critical side, but the big takeaway for me was the shafts being brass. As a hobbyist, it could be a while before you eat through one, but it could also be a single simple mistake. The Chinese manufacturers seem to be pretty good about keeping up with things like that, but I don't know how much noise has been made or if it's been made in the right places to catch the right ears for anything to have changed.

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On 12/16/2020 at 6:30 PM, nickelsilver said:

It's a never ending strife, I watched a Finnish watchmaker lose about a year of his life from stress mucking around with a problem spring and he's an amazing watchmaker. In the end I wound it in by hand for him, mostly out of fear that he would start destroying the workshop (yes you can wind them in by hand without damage but it takes practice).

Hi @nickelsilver. Would you please explain the correct way to hand wind a mainspring?
From comments above, I believe quite a few people would be interested.

I've recently been working on a couple of Seiko automatics which have been driving me crazy getting the springs in. As they are left handed,  I first have to use a smaller winder, and transfer to a washer. Unfortunately my next smaller winder is a bit too small, hence a broken the bridle. Then, when trying to fit it to the washer it pinged out, then .... etc etc

Edited by mikepilk
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16 hours ago, mikepilk said:

Hi @nickelsilver. Would you please explain the correct way to hand wind a mainspring?
From comments above, I believe quite a few people would be interested.

 

It's a little hard to describe it. With automatics also it's quite easy to kink the spring just after the bridle too*, but here goes.

 

Get the spring started in the barrel, like the first turn in, as would feel natural (i.e. just do it). From there, you want to manipulate the spring, turning the part out of the barrel around by half turns until that bit will drop in, continuing until the spring is in. The important thing is to not stress the spring. It works with watches because almost inevitably you are working with a low profile barrel, compared to a typical clock for example. So a typical watch barrel might be 11mm inner diameter, spring 1.3 high, a 1:8.5 height to diameter ratio. A clock barrel might be 50mm diameter with a 25mm spring height- 1:2. So with the clock spring to get it out first of all the spring has to twist out of the barrel at an extreme angle, likewise going in, if not using a winder. With a watch spring the angle going out/in is quite small.

 

What some will do, the wrong way, is get it started, and then essentially force the coil in causing it to wrap itself up to the smaller diameter, stressing it. This is when you get a cone shaped spring.

 

* with automatics, the bridle is quite strong compared to the spring. Getting it started in the barrel is tricky, especially getting the last bit of bridle in before it's just mainspring. I would recommend a winder for any automatic if at all possible, or accept that you might put in a bend right after the bridle. Some are worse than others, El Primero springs are a real pain without a winder!

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7 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

 with automatics, the bridle is quite strong compared to the spring. Getting it started in the barrel is tricky, especially getting the last bit of bridle in before it's just mainspring. I would recommend a winder for any automatic if at all possible, or accept that you might put in a bend right after the bridle. Some are worse than others, El Primero springs are a real pain without a winder!

You are right about automatics - the end bit of the bridle is very tricky, it won't wind straight in. I had to use tweezers to pull the end of the bridle in, before I could continue winding by hand.

I did manage your technique - form a small loop, then drop it in, rather than pushing it continuously in. I practiced on an old spring, and it was pretty flat when I took it out.

I would rather have used winders, but the barrel on Seiko 7002/7S26 is an odd size. I only have 9.5 and 10.6 mm winders. The 9.5 is too tight for the spring, and the 10.6 mm a touch too big for the barrel !

Anyway, it's in and running, with reasonable amplitude for a Seiko.

Ta

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