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Design Watch / Plating Project


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Hello All;

 

Today I acquired from eBay this 1970's (?) look "Chelsea" watch for as little as $10. It supposed to be in working condition. Not that I think I won the jack-pot here, but I thought the watch deserves a second round and it would give me a nice opportunity to learn any plating skills.

Reason for posting is to find advice about plating, methods, chemicals, equipment and to shear the process/progress and lessons learned. My aim is not to go to the nearest shop and buy a full plating-kit, but to learn the principles and start plating from the "ground up", preferably with equipment (or chemicals) already at hand or DIY.

If the project goes according to plan, I will take pictures and share them with the forum and perhaps it may become a kind of plating "walk-through", beginning from the very scratch.

 

From the watch-pictures I can see that the bracelet has a little (fatigue) crack, and I'm not sure if that is going to be a show-stopper (best to see on 2nd picture, the minute hand is pointing at it at the 10 o-clock position)? If there is a way to repair it (depending on the material the bracelet is made from), the bracelet can be polished and made ready for some kind of plating process; be it brush-plating, spot-plating or other plating methods. I was thinking of giving it a silver- or gold-plating. If gold-plated, I guess the hands have to be done as well and those may be an interesting challenge on their own.

 

Hope to receive lots of advice / ideas and that it is going to be and interesting, meaningful & educational  project for the forum. Without further ado, here is the watch I had in mind for the plating project and if anybody has any info about the watch, plating suggestions or idea's, I'm open for any direction.........I'm starting with a white sheet;

 

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All the (various) forums threads that I've read on DIY plating pretty much agree:

Electroplating is a delicate, potentially toxic and dangerous job with no guaranteed results unless the best materials and machines are used supplemented by substantial experience.

If you can find otherwise I'll be curious to see the results.

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i would venture to say that some enterprising soul has conquered it and posted a video on youtube. also, there is a company in the states (the eastwood company) that deals in all sorts of refinishing of cars. i think they have a kit for replating. i would be interested in any results, also.

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Hello JDM; Isn't it funny that I heard the same kind of encouragement before I started my Rolex endeavor?

To ramrod: I will try to be one of those enterprising souls ;)

 

Are there any other positive suggestions out there? I would love to hear !

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i just did a youtube search for chrome plating. there are enough videos to keep you busy for a while. me personally, i would like to see a nickel plated case as a mod. i think nickel plating is the bomb.

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Yes, I was thinking about that too........ Have to find out if nickle can cause some allergic reaction with the skin? And, yes; YT is full of attempts, some with good results :)

Of course, the shape of the bracelet asks for some creative anode shape if spot-plating is used. Then there is this very inspiring man: 

 

Edited by Endeavor
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very interesting. i do remember seeing something about a sponge type thing for plating (dabbing it on or something like that). this fellow is fairly familiar with the process. on a small scale, i would be inclined to do something like this. however, the base metal has to be almost perfect before plating because any plating material will not hide any defects under it.

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Yes ramrod; we are talking microns, and microns are not going to cover up any imperfections. That's why I'm worried about that crack. On eBay it was said that the bracelet was SS. I was maybe thinking of drilling a hole at the end of the crack, stopping it from going further. But then it needs to filled up.

Any stainless-steel metal workers under us who can give me some tips / advice?

 

I do have diamond polishing paste down to grit 10.000 and preparation is, as usual, the key.

Edited by Endeavor
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Yes ramrod; we are talking microns, and microns are not going to cover up any imperfections. That's why I'm worried about that crack. On eBay it was said that the bracelet was SS. I was maybe thinking of drilling a hole at the end of the crack, stopping it from going further. But then it needs to filled up.

Any stainless-steel metal workers under us who can give me some tips / advice?

I do have diamond polishing paste down to grit 10.000 and preparation is, as usual, the key.

You need to give it to a jeweler to have it micro welded.

http://youtu.be/0kyxe8jJmGQ

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Hello ro63rto;

 

Thanks, yes that's an option....... but it seems an expensive one...........especially here in Denmark!

There must be other ways like removing the crack, copper plate the bracelet and use copper wire and solder to fill it up. I'm investigating this route;

 

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Endeavor,

 

from the photographs alone I would have my doubts that the bracelet was actually stainless steel.

There appears to be plating loss to the bezel, and at the edges of the bracelet, but most noticeably to the inside of the bracelet, exposing what may well be some brass type base metal alloy.

 

If this is the case then the crack should be a simple matter of soldering to repair (preferably with a hard solder and not the standard electrical stuff).

 

On the other hand the discolouration could be down to something on the surface of the (stainless steel) bracelet.

 

Are there any markings on the bracelet to say that it is stainless steel? A very common error on eBay is for sellers to describe a watch as stainless steel because it says "stainless steel back" on the watch back, they assume that the whole watch is S/S when in fact it is just the back, and the rest of the watch is a plated base metal alloy.

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Hello Marc & Ramrod;

 

Very well spotted on these small pictures I supplies ! On eBay you can zoom in and I was wondering the same, if it was indeed SS. Here is the direct eBay link for as long as it exist: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272144232189?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

If the base metal is a copper alloy, then that would make life a whole lot easier. I do have hard-solder & S-39.

While the watch is in transit, and going by what the seller says, I'm trying to investigate a solution in case it is SS. While doing so, I'm discovering new techniques..... which is always interesting & worthwhile :)

 

I'll let you know as soon as the watch is in, and it may well be that you are absolutely right...... let's hope so !! Thank you for thinking along ;)

Edited by Endeavor
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Hope you are right !! ;)

After the repair, I may go for a copper-plating first, as that seems to be a good ground- / bounding-layer for any further plating. I haven't had time to investigate possible negative nickel to skin effects, but to keep things cheap, and still being able to obtain nice results, I may follow your suggestion. For me it's more acquiring the skills / know-how & improve upon. Nickel seems to be a perfect start, rather than silver / gold.

Also, from what I've learned so far, brush-plating may give, due to the unusual shape of the bracelet, a better result (?). In the 3rd video of Robert Murray-Smit, Robert explains how to make these expensive magic wands on the cheap........... Why they call these things "wands" may have to do with on which side of the trade you are :)

I hope to get the watch by the end of this week! Plenty of time to study, get the household chemicals mixed and order some pure nickel......... Still quite a lot of study / things / preparations have to be done.........

 

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Hello JDM; Isn't it funny that I heard the same kind of encouragement before I started my Rolex endeavor?

What I see is that you do a lot of Internet research before taking up a task, which is of course is a very good thing. But my observation, coming from direct experience is that for many jobs there is a big difference between theory and practice, and money, time and experience are actually the biggest factors.

Anyway I'm certainly curious to see how you will go with DIY electroplating, especially when applying multiple layers, and wish you get the best results.

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Thanks JDM, that's very nice of you ! ;)

 

Point is that I (and we all) have to start somewhere and I don't expect world class results. It seems a very nice thing to do, share my experiences with the forum and if the results are acceptable to good, everybody has, hopefully, learned something. Even if I go completely wrong, there are still lessons to be learned and perhaps I can improve upon the lessons learned.

If all goes haywire, I can then say; "at least I tried".........and another experience is added to the spectrum of life.

 

If you, during our journey, have valuable tips, I would love to hear them :)

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hi Endeavor,

i actually have had some experience at this. (with some advice from a chemist friend)

a few years ago i restored an old beat up 7 jewel elgin just for the fun of it. no value obviously.

after getting it working i was unhappy with the appearance of the plates so decided to try to gold plate them.

it is actually a lot easier than many people think.

the hardest part is getting the parts polished and cleaned enough.

super clean is super important.

and if you plate a scratch all you get is a plated scratch.

i will find my notes on the process and post them for you.

i am attaching a pic of the finished product.

i was quite pleased with the results.

looks better in person than in the pic.

likely the only gold plated 7 jewel elgin movement you will find.

post-807-0-09354000-1457989865_thumb.jpg

Edited by dalarry
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That's encouraging news Dalarry and your watch looks great! :thumbsu:

I'm well aware that the plating-thickness is only microns thick and preparation / cleanness is the key.

Another factor which is of influence is the shape of the object.

From what I've learned so far there are various methods of plating, among them; spot-, mask-, immersion- and brush-plating. As far as I understand the current-flow, or rather current-density, determines the thickness of the plated-layer and current "loves" edges. Due to the shape of my bracelet, and (in my eyes) its simplicity,I like to try brush-plating first. The "wand" with the donor material can be moved over/under/along the object and therefore (I hope) create an "equal" thickness, but also that the plating-material gets "drawn" into the edges & cavities.

I also have a friend who runs his own factory in hard-chrome plating and he's a specialist in hard-chrome plating of difficult shaped object...........but how much I can draw on his expertise needs to be seen, as he is a very busy man. The good news is, that he will send me the fluids required for immersion-plating. In these fluids the donor-material (the metal with which your like to plate with) is suspended (in nano-particles) in the fluid ($$$). To avoid uneven plating (current density), you have to get creative with the shape of the anode. Once I receive the package, I'm able to try both methods, so I'm very curious which of the two methods is most suitable for DIY :)

 

Which plating-method did you use Dalarry? And yes, I would love to read your notes !

For brush-plating I have the chemical composition of the electrolyte-fluid (given in the video above from Robert Murray-Smith), but I haven't got the composition of the activator-fluid and (if required) de-chroming fluid, yet. Do you have anything about that in your notes??

Edited by Endeavor
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While waiting for the watch to come in, I started with some preparation, like collecting the chemicals required for the electrolyte (all "house-hold" chemicals) and started making the wands, as per the 3rd video of Robert Murray-Smith.

I try to recycle & reclaim as much materials as I can. A discarded bicycle had 4x nice 3mm stainless steel rods which connected the mudguards to the frame........not anymore :) (A little magnet will help to determine if it's stainless-steel of "normal" steel)

The terminal blocks came out of discarded lamp frames. The 4mm female banana sockets I had laying around, are new, so are the heat-shrink sleeves. I shortened the banana-sockets and had to grind the threaded-end down a bit to make them fit in the terminal-block. So far, I made 2x SS-wands and see how they work. Being solid SS rods, the wands can be bend, or shortened to suite. Two more wands can be made as optional.

Here a picture of the materials used and the end result. Obviously, the donor-material will be connected to the "red" (positive) wand...... awaiting for some pure 99.99% nickel & copper which I bought from eBay. 

 

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Edited by Endeavor
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The watch came in yesterday ! :)

It turns out to be a copper-alloy base-material, with a silver plating.......kind off, more to come......

The movement seems to be a very low beat. I can nearly count the balance swings, perhaps 2 beats per second? Amazingly, it keeps the time reasonable......

Took the movement and crystal out, to be dealt with later as this is first of all a plating project.

At first glance some obvious problems were visible;

 

First the crack left onder and secondly some strange wear on the inside of the bracelet

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Inside the bracelet the silver is worn off, but also the copper base-material seemed to be corroded & pitted. Initial thoughts were corrosion due to sweat, but later I learned the real (horror) story.

 

Somewhere on the internet, even from an official company who's selling plating-equipment, I learned that one could reverse plate chrome / silver off an object. Later I found out (was told ;)), this is a VERY BIG NO NO, so don't follow this. One of those lessons learned of how not to do it. Anyhow, before I knew, ignorant bliss, I did this;

 

I took a glass jar with heavy diluted sulfuric acid and connected some silver wire to the cathode (minus). The bracelet became the anode (plus) and so the metal-donor.

 

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It took only 1.4Volt and I limited the current to 2.2 Amps, to slow down the process and have ample of time to observe.

 

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As you can see, the silver came slowly off, revealing another (black colored) plating layer. A little further in the process, this 2nd layer suddenly started to come off in big flakes, revealing a rough copper base layer. This worried me, so I stopped and consulted my friend who is specialized in (hard-chrome) plating.

 

First of all I was taught a lesson to never ever reverse a plating process. Reason being that one has no control over what gets taken out of the base material. This may ruin the whole object for any further plating!

Secondly, because this is a cheap object, the base-metal is left pretty untouched, but gets covered with a thick soft cyanide based copper layer which is very easy to polish prior to the silver plating.

This explains the second-layer I encountered, but also why the inside of the bracelet looks rough & pitted. The silver and the thick-soft-copper layer is worn off, exposing the rough base metal.

The next picture shows the bracelet fully stripped of its plating (rest was done by hand), leaving a copper base-metal with all kinds of pitting and marks........some are mine after some sanding. A pretty rough bracelet of not the highest quality base-material :(

 

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Time to deal with the crack before doing any further polishing or spending time. First I opened the crack with a hobby knife, and widened it with a small Dremel diamond grinding wheel. I only had a 50cm, 1cm thick hard-solder rod, so I took a file and collected the shavings. Put this on top of some S-39 flux and soldered the crack, heating from underneath with a  hobby burning torch.

 

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and after some sanding, the crack is repaired :)

 

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The next challenge is to make a smooth surface of something which isn't. My friend has this soft cyanide based "smoothing" copper, but is for sure not giving me any. He says, one mistake and I have to carry you away........not under his watch !

So, that's going to be quite some sanding and polishing to be done....... not sure if it's going to be mirror-finish.....

 

To be continued..........

Edited by Endeavor
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The latest update before opening the chemical brewery. Finished the polishing with a 6000 grit. The polishing didn't go 100% smooth, that is to say that during the polishing I discovered that all 4 corners, at which the bracelet was soldered to the watch-case, had cracks. Be it minor, compared to the one initially clearly visible, but still in need of repair. Same repair procedure as crack#1 was followed.

Also the base-material isn't of the highest quality and I didn't polish the inside till "mirror" finish. The bracelet is about 1mm thick and to remove all the pitting + polishing both sides would make it very thin.

 

With a loupe, the surface isn't 100% and I'm now getting to a stage whereby a too rough cloth starts to make visible scratches again. Just water cleaning. I think it's good enough surface for plating and to compare the results.

 

As for the Stainless Steel wands; I learned that these are a no no when submerged plating is used. The Stainless steel anode will "dissolve" and bring foreign material in the metal-solution. However, for brush-plating this should be less of an issue (in my mind at least). If the sponge just covers the donor-material, the amount what dissolves from the SS wand should be negligible and the electrolyte fluid is not the expensive fluid in which the donor material is dissolved. A carbon-anode is used for submerged plating. For the cathode it doesn't matter what kind of material is used, as long as it conducts, and can handle the current. The cathode, the part which comes in contact with the fluid, will get plated too.

 

I will start with brush-plating, however not directly on the "sweat & tears" bracelet, but first some sample material. I'm still awaiting donor-material which I bought from our Chinese eBay friends. Also the electrolyte has to be mixed and then we get some life in the brewery :) As soon as there is something new & interesting to report, I'll be back.

 

On the picture, left bottom, you can still see the first repair and even though it feels smooth, not sure if the two different metals won't show up after plating...... Some of the spots are dust particles.....that's goes fast on such a smooth surface with a dog running around..... the little scores are from a too rough cloth. I will  give it another 6000 grit polish, by hand, just prior plating. Looks like even looking at it will already scratch it.......... :D

 

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Next time in the brewery. Can't wait till I get to taste the samples ;)

 

 

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