Rolex 3135 Beat Error Adjustment

[clockboy]

Hi Guys, I have a question re-beat error for a Rolex 3135. 

Last year I serviced my Rolex 3135 all was great apart from when I put it on my timographer it showed dial up

NO error 0 +/-

BUT it did show a beat error of 1.4 ms. & I could not see how to adjust so I didn,t & it has run great.

However there is something amiss with the auto side so I need to re-address this. I am going to use Epilame fixodrop on the reversing wheels before l lube this time

BUT

While the watch is apart I would like to adjust the beat error anyone know how !!!!

[Geo]

While the watch is apart I would like to adjust the beat error anyone know how !!!!

If there is no adjustment lever for this I would think you will have to re-position the hairspring relative to the balance, or re-position the roller table relative to the hairspring. If the watch is starting OK and keeping time as well as you say........leave it alone!

[clockboy]

If there is no adjustment lever for this I would think you will have to re-position the hairspring relative to the balance, or re-position the roller table relative to the hairspring. If the watch is starting OK and keeping time as well as you say........leave it alone!

The,s my thoughts also. However I do find it strange, that you can adjust the time via micr-stella screws you can even just the end shake but there appears no easy or accurate way to adjust the beat. For a high end quality watch very strange.

[clockboy]

Intersting suggestion from a member (Endevor) suggesting this might be how it,s adjusted see pic. If I undo this screw can I twist the whole unit?  The screws on the ends are to secure the balance & underneath are the adjusters for the end shake.

 

 

[Geo]

I'm not at all familiar with this movement CB, there does seen to be some interesting adjustments available. I don't think you will be able to rotate the whole bridge, there appears to be adjusters under the bridge at each end that might be for end shake adjustment.

That said, if the mounting screws are equidistant from the balance axis, and these adjusters are eccentric then you might be able to rotate the whole bridge to adjust the beat. If this is the case, you would have to adjust each one identically to ensure you didn't knock the axis out of alignment.

[clockboy]

I'm not at all familiar with this movement CB, there does seen to be some interesting adjustments available. I don't think you will be able to rotate the whole bridge, there appears to be adjusters under the bridge at each end that might be for end shake adjustment.

That said, if the mounting screws are equidistant from the balance axis, and these adjusters are eccentric then you might be able to rotate the whole bridge to adjust the beat.

Thanks Geo I think the same actually. The screws on the ends are to secure the balance with adjusters underneath to adjust the end shake. 

With these adjustments I just find it hard to believe no adjustment is available for the beat Omega etc all have adjustments so why not Rolex.

I might give M a PM if no progress

[Marc]

Is the screw head arrowhead on the photograph actually an eccentric? If it is then I'd put money on that being the beat adjustment.

[clockboy]

Is the screw head arrowhead on the photograph actually an eccentric? If it is then I'd put money on that being the beat adjustment.

Not sure will look when I strip the movement. Just looking for a heads up before

[Endeavor]

Hello Clockboy; Not sure whether we are talking the same, perhaps we do, but I like to explain it in my Dutch/Dan-English.....

It seems to me that the screw with the arrow holds down a bracket. The end of the bracket (the left hand-side of the bracket) clamps down the "center" of the balance-bridge, there where the Incabloc is. I haven't undone this screw, so I do not not know if it's eccentric.

Anyhow, my suspicion is that if you slack of the bracket / clamp, you can adjust the "begin" position of the hair-spring.

I have my movement still out of the case and the beat error is around 1.5 to 2ms. If there are a lot of "heads up", I may give it a try........ after I build it in that is.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Endeavor

[clockboy]

Hello Clockboy; Not sure whether we are talking the same, perhaps we do, but I like to explain it in my Dutch/Dan-English.....

It seems to me that the screw with the arrow holds down a bracket. The end of the bracket (the left hand-side of the bracket) clamps down the "center" of the balance-bridge, there where the Incabloc is. I haven't undone this screw, so I do not not know if it's eccentric.

Anyhow, my suspicion is that if you slack of the bracket / clamp, you can adjust the "begin" position of the hair-spring.

I have my movement still out of the case and the beat error is around 1.5 to 2ms. If there are a lot of "heads up", I may give it a try........ after I build it in that is.

Thanks, strange that we both seem to have the error. What I will say although my Rolex has an error of 1.4ms it runs great and keeps excellent time. I will do some more research & may have a play when I do strip the watch. i just can not believe a quality watch such as a Rolex does not have an adjustment or are they set at the Rolex factory and deemed never to be adjusted.

[Endeavor]

I'm sure that Mark can help us out here within 1.5 - 2 Milli-seconds ............ :D 

[bobm12]

Guys, maybe the movement is so good that Rolex sold it "in error"? :)

 

You know, as in "both with the same error", oh, come on, a little smile! :)

 

In an more serious vein, what Roland says makes sense and I agree with CB about all the adjustments available except that important one...I guess I'm learning along this thread!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[clockboy]

Thanks Bob just wondering if Endeavor has spotted the adjustment. If the screw I have arrowed is concentric then that will be it. I have a couple of jobs arrived today (non running french marble clock & non running Seiko Quartz) so I will tackle them first just too get my hand & eye,s back in the groove before the Rolex.

[Endeavor]

Not hampered by any knowledge, I can still afford stupid remarks......

 

My training watch was a Swizz ETA2540, see picture

You can see that on top of the balance are two "levers". Completly on top, the black one, is to set the daily-rate, the other silver shiny one, with the screw & holder for the hair-spring, which can also turn, is to set the beat. I've been playing with this (a lot) to get my ETA2540 in beat and the daily rate as accurate as possible.

When I saw the 3135, my direct assumption was that the Rolex, being Swizz, had the same arrangement / setup, the only difference being that it had a clamp/bracket on top to "lock" the "beat-lever".

 

With the ETA2540 it all was a bit tricky because once you move the beat lever, the daily-rate changes. If you change the daily-rate, the beat changes. It was a bit of a chicken / egg game.

If the Rolex has the same "beat-lever" idea, it is not interconnected with the daily rate and therefor easy to adjust.......

 

Would be nice if Mark can confirm this, as I was planning to "fiddle" with it..........

Maybe I'm too simple here?

Edited February 15, 2016 by Endeavor

[clockboy]

Not hampered by any knowledge, I can still afford stupid remarks......

 

My training watch was a Swizz ETA2540, see picture

ETA_2540.jpg

You can see that on top of the balance are two "levers". Completly on top, the black one, is to set the daily-rate, the other silver shiny one, with the screw & holder for the hair-spring, which can also turn, is to set the beat. I've been playing with this (a lot) to get my ETA2540 in beat and the daily rate as accurate as possible.

When I saw the 3135, my direct assumption was that the Rolex, being Swizz, had the same arrangement / setup, the only difference being that it had a clamp/bracket on top to "lock" the "beat-lever".

 

With the ETA2540 it all was a bit tricky because once you move the beat lever, the daily-rate changes. If you change the daily-rate, the beat changes. It was a bit of a chicken / egg game.

If the Rolex has the same "beat-lever" idea, it is not interconnected with the daily rate and therefor is easy to adjust.......

 

Would be nice if Mark can confirm this, as I was planning to "fiddle" with it..........

Maybe I'm too simple here?

Maybe your right I have corrected many watch beats either by moving the hairspring or adjusting as the ETA. Watch  this space !!!!

[jdm]

Is the screw head arrowhead on the photograph actually an eccentric? If it is then I'd put money on that being the beat adjustment.

^^^ This.

[Endeavor]

Could you please explain how it worksJDM?

Edited February 15, 2016 by Endeavor

[jdm]

Could you please explain how it worksJDM?

I have no direct experience but as mentioned it looks like the screw head drives an eccentric that rotates the hairspring stud arm. Very elegant, safe and accurate solution.

Edited February 15, 2016 by jdm

[clockboy]

Will try next week sometime watch this space[emoji15]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Endeavor]

Thanks JDM........ it may / could well be......

 

However, I think that's a bit too "sophisticated" for a Rolex. Meaning that I had the impression that Rolex likes "KISS".

We'll seen next week what CB finds out, or if I get my one in its case, before that........

Perhaps Mark popped up while we were waiting to find out the truth?

 

[jdm]

Thanks JDM........ it may / could well be......

 

However, I think that's a bit too "sophisticated" for a Rolex. Meaning that I had the impression that Rolex likes "KISS".

We'll seen next week what CB finds out, or if I get my one in its case, before that........

Perhaps Mark popped up while we were waiting to find out the truth?

I think that what you call KISS is better described (for Rolex at least) as "superlative engineering efficiency" . I don't believe for a moment that a Rolex movement does not allow beat error adjustment without taking the whole thing apart with waste of time and the risk of breaking things for good.

Anyway, you can see that the hairspring end stud is solid to the arm kept in place by the screw. All what it takes is a small movement to adjust the centering of balance assembly, Otherwise that screw has no reason to exist and all what one has to do is to just to push on the arm as on most uncrowned movements.

Edited February 15, 2016 by jdm

[Endeavor]

I guess the general consensus is that the beat error adjustment is to be found in the middle of the balance bridge. Whether the screw is indeed eccentric and moves the centering or it secures a"clamp" which prevents unwanted movement of the centering (in case of a drop), isn't that relevant.

The key to adjust the beat error sits in the screw or is directly related to........

I like the "superlative engineering efficiency", which seems just like KISS, often hard to achieve ;)

Edited February 15, 2016 by Endeavor

[jdm]

I guess the general consensus is that the beat error adjustment is to be found in the middle of the balance bridge. Whether the screw is indeed eccentric and moves the centering or it secures a"clamp" which prevents unwanted movement of the centering (in case of a drop), isn't that relevant.

Beat error is adjusted rotating either the center or the end of the hairspring. Looking better I stand corrected, no eccentric is used, the screw tighten a small cock to clamp the stud arm in place. Beautiful.

From http://luxurytyme.com/movement/index.html

 

I like the "superlative engineering efficiency", which seems just like KISS, often hard to achieve ;)

Difficult but doable. Famous examples... Porsche, NAD Hi-Fi.

[Endeavor]

That's a much better picture of the balance bridge JDM and you describe it in the correct terminology.

I'm sure CB, among others, will be very happy..........

Leaves me, as a novice, with the question whether I should adjust the beat error right now, or let it first run for a while?

Since the movement was unprotected, I placed it in save, but "undefined" positions on the microphone of the Watch-O-scope and had the following readings:

 

+ 3.2 s/d Amp 234 BE 1.6 ms

+ 8.1 s/d Amp 258 BE  2.2ms

+ 9.7 s/d Amp 253 BE 1.5ms

 

These readings were "good enough" for me to go ahead and fit the dial & hands. With the Dial Up it ran about +3 sec in 24 hours.

Before servicing, the BE measurements were about the same and it ran about +2 s/d on my wrist (day & night). The above readings do suggest that it runs (slightly) faster now.

[Marc]

In jdm's picture above the screw head holding the sub-bridge does not look centred on the hole. It's only slightly off, but could be just enough for fine adjustment if it's an eccentric. I would say it was worth a tweak.