Best movements for practice?

[ramrod]

you can get some watches sold in lots on ebay. my last purchase was for 5 watches, and they're all useable and running nicely.

i gotta check out aliexpress

[Endeavor]

Hello Budsy;

 

I'm also new to watch repair and was advised to get some cheap training watches. My goal was to learn as fast as possible on Swizz mechanical movements, so I went after (in my eyes) difficult training material and bought two ETA2540 New Old Stock (N.O.S.) 17.5mm ladies watches.

Why?

1) Well, on this forum is a very good "walkthrough" which takes you by the hand and guide you through how to dismantle, clean and assemble them.

2) I went for N.O.S. because they are new and running, so you check your work after you are done. Secondly, the idea is that you repair a watch without leaving scratches behind.....a "ghost repair" so to speak. Since these watches are new, you are the first one to dismantle them, so any scratch, and you know it's yours.

3) I bought two in case I ruined one, so I had "back-up" spare parts. At first attempt to open for oiling, I ruined one leg of a Incabloc spring and during my third assembling (I did multiple "rounds"), I  broke a pivot from the pallet. Both valuable lessons of how not to.

4) Since these movements are so tiny, they reveal and expose straight away (and you can practice on) your tool handling skills, quality of your tools, parts handling skills and what you need for doing the job.

 

There is a very good Dutch Seller "Vacheron_nl" on eBay who has these ETA2540 for £7.60 or $11 each, including hour-wheel. To save on postage, you can ask for combined postage. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tressa-ETA-caliber-2540-N-O-S-Swiss-watch-movement-running-/361474036132?hash=item54298811a4:g:8CQAAOSwFqJWogo-

 

If you rather start gentle with bigger movements and depending on your goal; for the movement of your choice, first find clear information like exploded views, PDF-files or clear walkthrough's. By this you avoid getting stuck at first attempt. Buy running watches and preferable N.O.S. for the reasons given above.

 

These are my "Two cents".........;-)

Edited February 15, 2016 by Endeavor

[Budsy]

Jdm, ramrod, endeavor,

Thanks for taking time to reply, all good, solid advice.

Shall copy your method of training myself Endeavor. All the points you make seem sound and well thought out.

Thanks again

[oldhippy]

How about old watch makers where you live. When I started my master had boxes of old watches all types and sizes for me to practice on. 

[WillFly]

Another alternative, which I don't think has been mentioned before on the forum, is to buy two or three HMT watches on eBay. It's still possible to get a barely used one for under £10, if you look carefully - and there are always several for sale. And because they're quite common, breaking for parts is not a problem. The HMT factory has now been closed by the Indian government - it hadn't been a profit-making concern for many years - but I don't think that will raise the price of the s/h stuff on eBay.

 

Worth a look, at any rate.

[rogart63]

I started with some old russians. Slava and Poljot are available at cheap prices on Ebay. You could buy a 20 movement for next to nothing. Or why not buy a nice Vostok Komendirskie? 

[syfre]

I have started with lady movements :nurse:

if you master ladies you can do anything.

In fact size doesn't matter so much, but with ladies you must be delicate and absolutely clean.

[jdm]

with ladies you must be delicate and absolutely clean.

How true! Works every time.

[Folkvisor]

I would have saved a lot of money if I'd gone on WRT a couple of months ago.

O well....live and learn...

Dave

[ausimax]

Try some of the cheap Swiss movements, like a Baumgartner 866CLD, Brac 28 or a MAM 3467 they are all one jewel or low jewel pin lever movements, but the degree of difficulty reassembling them will really try your patience and see if you are suited to watch work.

I was servicing a MAM today and the time it took to install the train bridge I could have completely reassembled a Seiko or two, some of these pin lever movements look junk but they keep going for ever.

 

Well worth having a go at even if it isn't a working movement you will learn a lot from them..

 

Max

[Folkvisor]

Train bridges should be called trestles; that's what I think.

Getting all those pivots in the right place and then carefully placing the bridge without displacing them and making sure all the pivots go in the right jewel hole can be a bit trying. I guess the more you do it the better you get.

I'm always amazed by Mark's patience. But my mother's former students always commented on her patience; I always wondered if they were talking about the same person.

Dave

[jdm]

Train bridges should be called trestles; that's what I think.

Getting all those pivots in the right place and then carefully placing the bridge without displacing them and making sure all the pivots go in the right jewel hole can be a bit trying. I guess the more you do it the better you get.

 

Where there's an achievement there's is a precise technique masqueraded as "dedication" to deter newcomers.

What about a round of sewing thread to keep things in place.  

[Folkvisor]

Whatever works...

[BeyondWorld]

I have started with lady movements :nurse:

if you master ladies you can do anything.

In fact size doesn't matter so much, but with ladies you must be delicate and absolutely clean.

 

You are a brave brave man.

[bobm12]

 

if you master ladies you can do anything.

In fact size doesn't matter so much, but with ladies you must be delicate and absolutely clean.

Absolutely, as with all things in life: "Cherchez la femme!" :D

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist. But yes, if you feel comfortable at that level, go ahead! To each its own! I still will recommend something big, simple, working and easy to find parts to, to the beginner!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[frenchie]

I'd say start with something big too. Get a few cheap pocket watch movements to familiarize yourself with the parts and the techniques. Once you can get them apart, cleaned and oiled without a problem, go smaller. After that, it's a matter of patience and dexterity !

IMO, having to learn all the parts, and the techniques, and the tools, while at the same time having to fiddle with a loupe and jumping/rolling/falling/disappearing parts, it's a recipe for frustration. Get a large pocket watch, the parts that fly away will be that much easier to find !

[Folkvisor]

I just bought a 2836-2. It looks pretty small compared to my 6497-1. At least there are no Novodiac springs...LOL

[AlexanderB]

Hi,

I just saw that I can get a watch with a Valjoux 7733 for maybe 160 EUR. Would that be an option to start with?

Also Poljot cal. 3133 is available for little money.Or maybe Chinese calibers.

It should be a complete watch since I also want to practice removing and setting of the hands.

 

I'd like to service a 7750 but even very old ones are very expensive.

Thank you for your advise!

Cheers Alexander

[bobm12]

Hi Alexander,

In my mind, the Valjoux is going to be good to have but not for immediate work (it may become much more expensive, in the future, after the Swiss regulation on watch parts). Too many things could go wrong in a chronometer and too many "subsystems" to deal with in the beginning.

Also, Chinese calibers -- those that don't clone Swiss movements -- are not too advisable due to the lack of replacement parts and other "quality" issues and technology that might very well be "unique"! Not a path I would go...

Then of course you have the Russian movement which is also a chronometer and I believe it is based on the Valjoux or similar movement with many modifications. Check etsy.com for spares and such. I think the same situation as the Valjoux applies.

This is, of course, a very personal opinion. I think you can tackle anything at this point but the learning curve on those is going to be steep and therefore, might not be as enjoyable as it should. Also, consider the parts availability that might lead you into frustration for non technically related issues (more like supply) and even distract you from your main goal which is learning about those movements. I personally am not too patient when waiting for stuff to arrive...or to never arrive!

It is, as always, a choice: where to go next?! I would check on other movements: ETAs and Japanese alike, even simpler Russians (meaning not chronometers). Maybe one or two different ones before starting chronometers so I can get a feel of the different "nuances" of the technology. Consider also that chronometers might require some new tools too you might have to invest on.

I hope my previous take on the matter helps you decide which is your next step from where you are, Whatever you decide, don't let what I just said be a deterrent but more like some opinions to consider while choosing.

Cheers,

Bob

[Cad101]

Why not try something like a Poljot 2612.1 alarm movement you can get some bargains on the bay and will give you something a bit different to work on , I've just serviced my sons and it was fun to do except for loosing a spring for an hour but I enjoyed it.

Mick

[AlexanderB]

Thank you Bob and Mick,

just to make sure, I already worked on

• 6497 Clone (Started with this one)
• ETA 406
• ETA 2472
• ETA 2671
• PUW 1175
• Some pocket watch calibers

Next will be another attempt to service the 2671 where the second stop spring is a real challenge. I destroyed it and now have a spare part.

I have the feeling that a chronometer is next. Actually not yet but if I can find a bargain I will buy it and service it maybe in 6 Months after some more practice. Maybe I keep looking for an old 7750. But they are expensive.

Cheers Alexander

Edited May 3, 2016 by AlexanderB

[AlexanderB]

I was able to buy a "Technos" Chrono with a 7733 Movement for 150 EUR. I also found a 9 page service Manual w/ disassembly and assembly instructions. The watch must be from the 70ies. I am curious to see the movement, although I will leave it as is until I feel comfortable working on that.

Cheers Alexander

[bobm12]

Sorry, Alexander, I thought your 2472 walkthrough was your fist! By no means, start on the 7733, it will be a good experience! The proposed Poljot 2612.1 Mick mentions sounds also as an interesting proposition...alarm complication?

Cheers,

Bob

[Geo]

That's a nice looking watch for the money Alexander.  You should do OK servicing it as long as you don't force or de-adjust anything in the process.  If in doubt at all, stop and ask for advice.  

Remember, you can't take too many photos when stripping a watch, particularly a chronograph.  Take pictures of the movement with the chrono both running and re-set.  Also study all operations of the chrono mechanism to make sure you fully understand the interaction of all the parts during the separate operations.

[AlexanderB]

Thank you Geo. You are right, of course, taking a picture pretty much every part I take away is mandatory. I started a photography threat earlier. I have my DSLR on a tripod and a LED ring light now with a good DIY diffusor. It takes me 15-30s to take a picture. That doesn't really slow me down. And with the experience I gathered so far I don't have and pictures that don't come out properly.

Nevertheless I will practice some more, maybe five more complete and different movement services before I start this adventure.

And now, that I found this excellent forum, I for sure will ask before spoiling it.

Thanks again

Cheers Alexander