Jump to content

Seiko 4205 Rebuild


Recommended Posts

Well after cleaning all of the parts and managing not to lose anything it is time to put it all back together. Although I don’t show or mention it, I did apply the appropriate lubs where necessary. I still need a lot of practice getting the correct amount of oil exactly where it is needed. I sometimes end up having to clean up and start again, so it would have taken forever to do the write up. The cap jewels (fiddly little blighters) were also removed, cleaned and oiled but they took all of my concentration. They are so tiny that, if you take your eye off them it is sometimes hard to locate them again!

So apologies for not covering these parts of the operation, I am sure there must be some guides out there written by someone with much more expertise than I possess that explain these things in detail. But often it is just a case of taking the bull by the horns and giving it a go.

 

 

First thing to go back is the centre wheel and cannon pinion

 

post-923-0-63980700-1455219255_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don’t get carried away and fit the centre wheel bridge yet, pop the escape wheel into place first because it won’t go in with the bridge in place.

post-923-0-89874800-1455219438_thumb.jpg

Bridge in place.

post-923-0-89195300-1455219487_thumb.jpg

Winding bridge in position.

post-923-0-17055100-1455219543_thumb.jpg

This little spring that bears onto the sliding crown wheel, I give it a little tweak so that it puts a bit more pressure onto the wheel. It does seem to help with the winding issue that I mentioned. In the picture below I have not yet bent the spring. You will be able to judge for yourself how much is needed.

post-923-0-21945900-1455219593_thumb.jpg

Fit the intermediate ratchet wheel and then the pinion for the reduction wheel.

post-923-0-38632400-1455219641_thumb.jpg

Set the barrel, ratchet wheel and click spring into place.

post-923-0-85482100-1455219692_thumb.jpg

Third and fourth wheels in place and the centre seconds pinion.

post-923-0-13902300-1455219755_thumb.jpg

The next thing is to gently lower the train wheel bridge into place. I find it helps to fit a couple of the retaining screws just by a few threads or so, while you jiggle and cajole the pivots into place

I don’t fit this one just yet as the spring makes it quite tricky, and even more so if the bridge is not secure. So leave it until you have all the pivots located and the rest of the screws nipped up. It is prone to taking flight so take care with it. I have found a small piece of Rodico helps hold it in place while you line up the screw, and it stops it taking off.

post-923-0-27737600-1455219842_thumb.jpg

It can be a bit tricky to get all the pivots in place. I have found a sewing needle helps to lightly nudge the wheels into position. Make very sure that everything is free before you nip the retaining screws and that the wheels spin freely. There is a bit of rust damage to the bridge which is a bit unsightly. If I had another one I would have swapped it.

The pallet fork and it’s bridge are in place too.

I like to put a bit of power into the spring and then just check that the pallet fork flicks back and forward enthusiastically before fitting the balance. Release the power in the mainspring before trying to refit the balance. Give it a bit of a wind and see if it runs, or rather, enjoy watching it run. You have to be optimistic!

post-923-0-27954900-1455219913_thumb.jpg

post-923-0-76412000-1455219971_thumb.jpg

Edited by Geo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now we can flip it over and begin on the dial side. Do take care not to

catch the balance if you leave it in place. You could take it back out to be on the safe side. I have hollowed out my holder a bit to give it plenty room.

 

Here is the stem and it’s associated parts back in position. I also gave the setting lever spring a little tweak so that it holds the winding pinion a little more firmly.

 

post-923-0-32214500-1455294942_thumb.jpg

 

It’s hard to see the small plate that is located onto a couple of pins. It is just below and to the right of the cannon pinion.

 

post-923-0-70468400-1455295013_thumb.jpg

 

Drop the date driving wheel, minute wheel, hour wheel and the little intermediate wheel into place. Take care and check that they all mesh with each other.

 

post-923-0-77223400-1455295076_thumb.jpg

 

Now the date jumper and it’s spring. Now this spring does like to take

off,  I always breathe a huge sigh of relief when it is back where it should be. In fact I begin to breath again at this point.

 

post-923-0-01525100-1455295138_thumb.jpg

 

The date corrector finger sits on a couple of pins that locate into it’s slotted holes.

 

post-923-0-65789400-1455295213_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gently lower the date ring into position and then it’s retaining plate.

It can be a bit fiddly to get everything lined up. Maybe have a bit of practice before you fit the date jumper and the tricky little spring.

When you do finally have the plate in position and the screws located don’t tighten them down just yet. If you look closely you will see that the date jumper is lying under the date wheel. Once you have the plate in place and the screws lightly holding it, you can ease the jumper out from underneath the ring and it will locate itself into the date ring.

 

post-923-0-85956400-1455295460_thumb.jpg

 

Here it is in the correct position.

 

post-923-0-41149900-1455295511_thumb.jpg

 

Now put the date indicator finger on and tighten it up.

 

post-923-0-71801100-1455295562_thumb.jpg

 

Don’t forget the small washer that sits behind the dial. As I mentioned earlier, some have them some don’t. Not sure if they were lost or not necessary. I know that we don’t need to fit this just yet, it’s just a reminder before you replace the dial.

 Now is a good time to make sure  that everything works. Check that the watch winds, check the quickset and make sure the date wheel flicks around as you wind the watch through 24 hours and the date finger makes a complete revolution.

 

post-923-0-26963000-1455295661_thumb.jpg

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now we can fit the autowind mechanism. Refit the reduction wheel and screw which is left hand thread.

 

post-923-0-09933900-1455295901_thumb.jpg

 

Fit the pawl lever onto the pin on its driving wheel, the lub should hold it in place while you flip it over and put into position.  Make sure that both ends of the lever are not lying on top of the reduction wheel when you fully tighten the screws, just gently ease them over the edge first, so that they are engaging with the tiny ratchet teeth.

 

post-923-0-17512800-1455295988_thumb.jpg

 

Fit the rotor and check that the autowind is working ok, taking care not to slip and catch the balance.

 

post-923-0-35866200-1455296051_thumb.jpg

 

 

It would have been nice to go on and fit the dial and hands and then re-case the movement, but I have just noticed that the watch and the balance in particular appear to be magnetised. So I will leave it for now until my de-magnetiser arrives.

Hopefully I have covered the most important points and the rest is just cosmetic really. I hope it has been helpful, I have quite enjoyed doing it.  I've tried to explain things as clearly as I can. If I have been unclear at any point I would be glad to help if I can.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great Job on that Seiko. Those pictures are perfect! So consistent and well lit. Are you using a horizontal tripod set up? 

 

JC

 

 

Thank you very much, I'm glad it looks ok.

Yes I used a small tripod, Velbon Ex Macro, and my Olympus EM5 with the 12-50 kit lens which has a macro facility. I must admit that my worktop was a little crowded, ideally I would like a macro lens that would focus a little further away from the workpiece to gain a bit more room underneath the lens. In these shots the lens was only about 2-3 inches above the movement, so I had to continually slide the movement back under the lens after each step. Also with the camera being so close I had to adjust the lights to shine right in there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

An Olympus camera?no wonder they look great. I had a friend of mine photograph some of my watches, and it is very difficult to get all the parameters equilibrated enough to get good shots. He used a Nikon p900 but no tripod and had to adjust each time for every watch. I'm thinking I am going to invest in a good setup because I am often taking shots of my watches for various purposes. That Olympus you've mentioned is priced at a reasonable level. Do you use LED or incandescent lighting? I have tried both and like the warmth of incandescent but it tends to add a distinct hue to images making stainless steel or silver dials look gold 

or amber colored. With LEDs  the glare is tricky to adjust. Thanks for the info.

 

JC

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My lights are just some cheap LED clip on's from Ikea. They cast shadows but worked ok for the pictures. For the photos I set a custom white balance in camera. You photograph a piece of plain white card or paper under the light you will be using for your pictures and the camera compensates for the different colour temperature of the light. Or you can adjust the white balance until you get the look you want using Lightroom or other photo editing software. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes I used a small tripod, Velbon Ex Macro, and my Olympus EM5 with the 12-50 kit lens which has a macro facility. I must admit that my worktop was a little crowded, ideally I would like a macro lens that would focus a little further away from the workpiece to gain a bit more room underneath the lens. In these shots the lens was only about 2-3 inches above the movement, so I had to continually slide the movement back under the lens after each step. Also with the camera being so close I had to adjust the lights to shine right in there.

Same camera and lens here, not surprisingly your pictures look very similar to mine. But I'm not satisfied when compared to other people pictures, yes a better lens would help, but there is more to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did one of these some time back and found that the click spring was worn to the point that it would not 'click' and hold mainspring tension. What I did was dress the worn portion and then put a 'kink' in the clickspring, effectively shortening it and pulling in the click potion. You need to be careful when bending the click as it is quite thin and will not tolerate to much bending.

 

Thing is, I just did another one after reading Davey's earlier teardown post and lo and behold.. same wear on the click (followed by same corrective action!). To be honest I alctually forgot about the issue on the earlier one but seeing the same thing again brought it back.

 

I have done countless of the Seiko 4205's bigger brothers and have never come across any wear of any sort on the click, rust yest but not wear. Anyone else encounter this? Both of these were the A-model with a balance bridge as opposed to a 'cock' but I have another B-model one on my desk waiting its turn and while it still holds a wind you can see some wear of the click where it locks the ratchet wheel.

 

Anil

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Same camera and lens here, not surprisingly your pictures look very similar to mine. But I'm not satisfied when compared to other people pictures, yes a better lens would help, but there is more to it.

 

How true

To be honest I have never taken a picture that I have been satisfied with. I love photography in general and used my camera lots and got really into it. But I always used to compare my pictures to others that people had taken and feel disappointed. Maybe I am just too self critical, but some people have a flair for it some don't. I tend to think I am the latter but I will keep snapping away, one day it might all come together. In the meantime I am resisting the temptation to buy "just one more lens".

 

Anil

So far I have not come across any click springs like you describe. But in future I will give them a good looking at just in case. Thanks for pointing it out.

Edited by Davey57
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • I have come across left-handed threads on ratchet wheels several times - without it being indicated with 3 stripes. It has been mentioned before - it was suggested that it was done to save one extra tooling operation (changing to a LH thread tap)
    • I would say that most of the Swiss movements that I have worked on over the years have had right hand threaded ratchet wheel screws. However maybe 10% have been left handers. As for the 3 slot marking to indicate reverse threads although I have encountered it on Swiss movements I find it's more of a non-Swiss practice, more common on Russian and Japanese movements. The thing with left hand threads is that they are inteded to prevent the screw from being undone in the event that the component that they are screwed into has a normally anti-clockwise direction of rotation, which would loosen a right handed thread unless there was some other means of preventing the component turning independently of the screw. With the ratchet wheel the screw goes into the mainspring arbor which is locked to the ratchet wheel via the square. Because the square locks everything together the screw can be left or right handed without issue.  
    • Hi Floyd, welcome to WRT! I'm also pretty new so take everything I say with a grain of salt. You ought to be able to measure the case ID to determine the crystal size and then purchase one of either side of the diameter you think ought to work. As to other parts, there are a couple of resources that will help. One is a website in Germany that will help with information on the movement. The other is a book (that I don't yet have) that seems to have a lot of information. Many of the vendors have this database available online and there are pdf versions that you can get on CD. Looking here will give you a list of domestic (USA) resources for parts and tools if you haven't already found some.
    • I think relying on the "stripes" on the screw head is the issue. If they're there, great but don't think that a normal screw head can't be left-handed and don't assume that the ratchet wheel can't have a left-handed screw either.
    • My apologies for the necropost, but what book is that?
×
×
  • Create New...