Jump to content

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, AlexanderToerzs said:

Since lighter fluid is exactly what is refered to as white spirit in the UK, naphta in the US and benzine by de Carle I would grant it "horological product status" through the back door so to speak 😀 Cheers Alex.

Actually if you look at the material safety sheet it is Light Hydrotreated Distillate 70% by weight and Hydrotreated Light Naphtha 30% by weight.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, GregG said:

The cleaning method must be not just work setup friendly, but also girlfriend-friendly. XD  Somehow I don't think she'll be too keen on having me store jars of lighter fluid around the apartment.  And the cleaner I use is not ammonia based so I don't worry about the safety of the procedure on the watch parts.  I've done about a dozen watches with this stuff (https://zep2.zep.com/product/zepcommercial/heavy-duty-citrus-degreaser),

Having just now looked at the material safety sheet for your cleaner I recommend you don't read it if you think ammonia is bad for your health. Then you have to keep us up-to-date on how well this works.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Having just now looked at the material safety sheet for your cleaner I recommend you don't read it if you think ammonia is bad for your health. Then you have to keep us up-to-date on how well this works.

To be fair, I never said ammonia is bad for your health XD

Correct me if I'm wrong, but checking the SDS, the only thing listed as a potential hazard is the fragrance, which falls under an allergen.

Even then, I searched for each ingredient manually.  Sodium hydroxide is possibly a hazard if touched, and I couldn't find a lot of information on Trisodium NTA, but otherwise, the remainder of the ingredients I couldn't find anything significantly hazardous.  Some of the ingredients are used in cosmetics and as food additives.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, AlexanderToerzs said:

Since lighter fluid is exactly what is refered to as white spirit in the UK, naphta in the US and benzine by de Carle I would grant it "horological product status" through the back door so to speak.

I think you have missed the ample discussion we had already in this same topic. I will summarize again the key facts to help anyone reading to make his informed choice.

  • The scientific name of the "petrol based product with many names" is Petroleoum Ether https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_ether and has guaranteed purity and no additives.
  • The products you can buy at the hardware store are for general cleaning, or burning , etc. Again, no guaranteed purity.
  • Lighter fuel may look the same to the layman but chemical differences aside I don't think the manufacturer goes to great lengths to filter it. But for sure they add some fragrance to it. In the end it's formulated to burn, not to clean. It also cost much more than the above in quantity, and is never recommended by books or washing machine makers.

Buying based on ease of availability why not use engine fuel then - OOPS that's recommended against also. In the end this old book from the beginning of 1900 is always right.

benzine.png.9fd24894427c8158cac40cfa0e43904e.png

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

It depends on which cleaning fluid he's using. You can get non-ammonia watch cleaning products that it probably wouldn't matter. No matter what if it has ammonia do get a beautiful cleaning effect but no more than about 4 to 5 minutes is the most most the time you really don't need that anyway.

I watched the video again.  Cannot find Quadralene which is the solution he appears to use.  I will cut my time back to 4 minutes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I watched the video again.  Cannot find Quadralene which is the solution he appears to use.  I will cut my time back to 4 minutes.

Thanks to house keeping our discussion got fragmented. Somewhere else is a discussion on baskets and it was a comment made of brass being bad because the ammonia is bad for it. As we now were fragmented discussion I'm going to fragmented by asking the same question here

for everyone using any brass baskets anything with brass that you used for cleaning in the watch solution look at it and see if it looks like it's etched or pitted or any signs of chemical damage.

I was looking at my brass baskets they look fine.

So here's the problem we can find examples of at least I know of examples of if you leave it too long in the cleaning solution with ammonia at some point in time it goes past cleaning and it starts to etch or break down the copper dissolve it out of the brass basically it's a bad at some point in time. It appears to be as a guess looking at my cleaning baskets if the exposure is 1001 minute exposures versus 1000 minutes in the fluid it looks like he'll survive short exposures lots of them. It's only the long-term exposure that's a problem.

The reason why I was using four minutes is because one of the schools I was at had taped the machine over at four minutes. So in a classroom situation the machine was being run every single day continuously without harming the watch plates at least that we were aware of. Then I'd think one of the cleaning fluids actually had a time recommendation but I can't remember which one.

I guess the easy way to tell is if you clean for four minutes and everything is nice and clean it's fine if it needs longer cleaning time you could increase cents or just make sure you precleaned really good. In other words the cleaning fluid is not going to break free and clean up hardened lubrication in the jewels peg wood would be good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, GregG said:

To be fair, I never said ammonia is bad for your health XD

It's usually what everyone complains about is the smell of Ammonia.

13 hours ago, GregG said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but checking the SDS, the only thing listed as a potential hazard is the fragrance, which falls under an allergen.

Are we looking at the same safety sheet?

cleaner zep.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

L&R Rinse #3 bottle says rinsing for 3-5 minutes

Interesting about the rinse as I usually didn't worry about that.

Look at cousins I found the spec sheet for elma wf pro There recommending anywhere from 2 to 10 minutes.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

It's usually what everyone complains about is the smell of Ammonia.

Are we looking at the same safety sheet?

cleaner zep.JPG

My mistake, I was checking the ingredient list.  There is the SDS, which is what you have posted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Way too much information:). I clean by hand using lighter fluid💪

I use the ultrasonic cleaner for the case but may start cleaning parts in it. Now I am really not sure what cleaning solution to use, however, it appears that putting parts in a glass jar in the Ultrasonic cleaner is the best option.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, jdrichard said:

I clean by hand using lighter fluidI

Worth to note once again that  lighter fluid is not an horological product.

  • Does not have guaranteed purity
  • Has additives specific to it's intended use, which is to burn, not to clean.
  • It is never recommended by any manufacturer or watchmaking book.
  • It is more expensive, per quantity, than a professional petrol-bases solution (petroleum ether)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, jdm said:

Worth to note once again that  lighter fluid is not an horological product.

  • Does not have guaranteed purity
  • Has additives specific to it's intended use, which is to burn, not to clean.
  • It is never recommended by any manufacturer or watchmaking book.
  • It is more expensive, per quantity, than a professional petrol-bases solution (petroleum ether)

No matter what you think about Ronsonol lighter fluid there is nothing in it that can harm watch parts. It is  shellac friendly. I used it all the time as a watchmaker which in my time in horology came to around 30 years.   

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/9/2021 at 6:36 AM, oldhippy said:

No matter what you think about Ronsonol lighter fluid there is nothing in it that can harm watch parts. It is  shellac friendly. I used it all the time as a watchmaker which in my time in horology came to around 30 years.   

And you can find it noted in some of my old manuals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, jdrichard said:

And you can find it noted in some of my old manuals

Really? Maybe during the war it was the only thing available. Below a page from an early 1900 watchemaking book, benzine is the same product is still best fo degreasing, and post-ammonia rinsing. You will find the same guidance in the Bulova school text, etc. 

benzine.png.9fd24894427c8158cac40cfa0e43904e.png

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/10/2021 at 3:02 PM, jdm said:

Really? Maybe during the war it was the only thing available. Below a page from an early 1900 watchemaking book, benzine is the same product is still best fo degreasing, and post-ammonia rinsing. You will find the same guidance in the Bulova school text, etc. 

benzine.png.9fd24894427c8158cac40cfa0e43904e.png

So benzine, equals lighter fluid:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I recently switched from using purified Naphtha to Elma WF Pro. I was surprised how much better it cleans and gives a really nice shine.

The smell isn't too bad - worst when you open the Elma container. I have fan and open window to keep the fumes down.

I use a small amount in 50 ml glass beakers supported in the ultrasonic of warm water.  Suggested cleaning time is 2 - 10 mins. I find one cycle of 2.5 mins in my cleaner cleans most parts well, but do 2x for dirtier parts.

I was worried about any effects on acrylic when cleaning a case, but I tried on old acrylic glass and didn't see any problems. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't have an ultrasonic cleaner. I would be cleaning by hand. I have seen some US cleaners, but they are all the run of the mill Chinese ones. I would not know what they are capable of.

Heavier duty ones here in Australia are expensive.

I have emailed the company for a copy of the MSDS for the chemical (W9:1) I am looking at.

Edited by Michael1962
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/1/2020 at 10:01 AM, Deggsie said:

 

Hi all. Are there any components that is should not put into ammoniated watch solution? I’m going to do my first clean using Elma WP Pro today, which judging by the smell of it, it is definitely ammoniated.

 

Regards Deggsie

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It’s a great cleaner but as you have found it smells and as I have a small workshop in my house I changed to L&R solutions. To help with fumes I open a window and have a small portable fan blowing across the cleaning machine which also helps ( and keeps my dearest happy😀)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • jdm pinned this topic

I am new to watchmaking. I have recently tried my hand at cleaning watch parts in an ultrasonic cleaner using the #111 cleaning solution by I believe L&R. I set the temperature to 50c and clean for 10 minutes. I have not found much on the subject of temp/time variations. Anyways. Twice now I have performed this process and both times the solution leaves a thick white gel which usually take 3-4 rinses to remove it. Any ideas as to why this is happening?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, JDBooth said:

I am new to watchmaking. I have recently tried my hand at cleaning watch parts in an ultrasonic cleaner using the #111 cleaning solution by I believe L&R. I set the temperature to 50c and clean for 10 minutes. I have not found much on the subject of temp/time variations. Anyways. Twice now I have performed this process and both times the solution leaves a thick white gel which usually take 3-4 rinses to remove it. Any ideas as to why this is happening?

What are you rinsing with?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, JDBooth said:

I am new to watchmaking. I have recently tried my hand at cleaning watch parts in an ultrasonic cleaner using the #111 cleaning solution by I believe L&R. I set the temperature to 50c and clean for 10 minutes. I have not found much on the subject of temp/time variations. Anyways. Twice now I have performed this process and both times the solution leaves a thick white gel which usually take 3-4 rinses to remove it. Any ideas as to why this is happening?

Welcome to WRT forum. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • This is a type of tool that may be suitable to remove the bezel - though note that I'm pretty sure the watch should be face down - not face up, as in some of the photos of these tools on amazon & ebay! If you try one one of those, put the movement screws back in first to avoid accidents. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Removal-Professional-Remover-Watchmaker-Diameter/dp/B09XCH4QVN?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&smid=A296NCMMFVXSDN&th=1  
    • Hi, I’m constantly asking my wife to help me with removing the stem in order to complete casing. To expand, this is not a challenge for me when the setting lever is secured by a screw (older calibers). However when the setting lever is attached to a spring loaded setting lever axel, like on more modern calibers, I simply don’t see how to apply enough pressure on the button to get the stem out short of putting the movement face down with the dial and hands attached, which I’m loath to do in order to avoid damaging the dial/hands? what technique should I be using? thanks  
    • Many thanks for your advice (being borne in mind at present) & offer Dell. When I was given the clock the plastic anchor was loose on the arbour (it had split at the 'hole') &, after repairing this, I have been trying to determine whether the spindle (pin) should be perpendicular when the pallet is sitting on a flat surface; or whether, when installed, its L-R extremes (or alternatively its tick & tock points) should lie at equal angles from the vertical when moved with spring absent. I can get the clock to run but in every such configuration the top block has to be turned anti-clockwise (from above) by quite a bit in order to be 'in beat' & it always runs fast (despite the pendulum being set to as slow as possible). This makes me wonder if there is any particular feature of/fault in a torsion spring clock which determines which turn direction (if any) is necessary to get it 'in beat'; & whether there would be a different set of settings that would get it running nearer to time at somewhere around the mid timing/inertia position which would then allow tweaking of the fast/slow setting.
    • Now this has happened I bet China or India just to name two will start to produce none genuine parts.  I did. But idiot Boris Johnson failed miserably in his negotiations. The E U stitched up the UK like a kipper. Nigel Farage  offered his help but big head Boris declined. So this is why we are in this mess all because Johnson wasn't clever enough.  
    • Hands up all those who voted to leave the EU 😂, oopsie.  UK has just signed the Hague convention, next year that will provide cross border clout to British courts.
×
×
  • Create New...