Cleaning Fluids

[matabog]

I clean the pallet fork with Neophaline (I think it's the same with your 'nafta') using a soft brush. Then I use a piece of Rodico and clean the pivots and the jewels faces.

Be very careful, I managed to make a pallet fork smile at me like a vampire (when I pushed them against Rodico I managed to displace and rotate them by 90 degrees). My advice: apply the Rodico in the horizontal plane, not perpendicular to the pallets.

 

Bogdan

 

p.s.:   of course you do not use any kind of alcohol around shellac!

[matabog]

I forgot to mention: you do it quickly - clean the  pallet fork with Neophaline for maximum 15 seconds and then dry with blower. You do the same with the hairspring, also quickly. Mark's method is very nice, the one where you blow air under Neophaline.  Sometimes the spring is fixed to the collet and to the stud with shellac or some sort of glue (white stuff).

 

Bogdan

[Vich]

I have some Horosolv which is Benzene based - I wondered whether using this as a "one dip" and a burst of hot air to dry off may be a better alternative than the lighter fluid.

 

Thanks for the info chaps (prieteni)

 

Vic

[Geo]

Hi Vic, here's much tuppence worth.

For three years I have been using Ronson lighter fuel for initial cleaning to remove the old oil and grease. I wash all parts, including everything to do with the escapement and have never had a problem with dissolved shellac.

This may not be good or recommended practice, but from a practical point it works well for me and has never given me any problems. Like you, this is a hobby and I try to make sensible economies where I can.

I hope this has been of some of some help.

[Vich]

Thanks for that George, your timing is particularly interesting as apparently you are using the "New" version of the Ronson fluid.  Zippo bought them out in 2010 and changed the formula.  It now has 30% naptha content.  I am using cheap Bull brand fluid which according to the can is just Naptha ? Wonder if there are any Chemist types out there to advise.  Anyway, it seems that Zippo lighter fluid is now in Ronson Cans.  The main thing is that you have been using it for 3 years so it has to be the new formula and therefore ok.

[mwilkes]

I've been using Zippo fluid but I find it leaves a film on things when it evaporates... Not sure what to use instead...

Horosolv is benzine-based, hmm.

Edited August 24, 2014 by mwilkes

[Geo]

I have also used a few cans of cheap stuff as well without any problem.

[Legarm]

Interesting...... I have been using "Swan" lighter fluid, for both the balance and pallets, aerated with a blower and dried on paper also with a blower. This does not leave a film, also Mark has said in one of his vid's that lighter fluid may be used to clean the balance. He didn't mention the pallets, but my theory is that they are only in the fluid for a few seconds and I feel that's safer than the ultrasonic method.

[Vich]

I might be wrong but I think the higher the Naptha content the less film left behind.  But I suppose the question is what is the film and is it really a problem.  I am no purist by any sense of the word so if such a film is not a problem then I would not tend to worry too much but if the film is thick it could gum up the works I suppose.

 

If Naptha does not leave a film, and, if as I think Zippo and Ronson have now got the same formula then the "film" mwilkes refers to is likely to be the the "light hydrotreated distillate" AKA Kerosene.  This is used to bulk up the lighter fuel and is cheaper than the more highly refined naptha.

 

I am looking at the Bull tin and the side says: "Contains Solvent Naptha (petroleum light aliph)"  Swan brand also says the same thing and makes a point of putting extra refined on the front of the can.

 

So my researches seem to indicate the more naptha the better to clean but then I have to think about what George is saying as the Ronson stuff does not affect shellac is that because 70% of the stuff is Kerosene or Parrafin which is basically an oil and it probably does leave a film or coating though I would expect it to be very fine and on a thing like a lever not really a problem and it obviously does the job if Geo has used it for years.

 

Ok heres my take -  unlike the specialised cleaners which cost considerably more we are talking about loose change so I am going to get some Ronson/Zippo to use when worried about shellac and I will continue to use the Bull/Swan for general stuff. - Unless of course someone provides further info to prove that is a bad idea.

 

I am now mentally exhausted, is it too early for a drink ? - OK coffee it is.

 

Cheers,  Vic

[bobm12]

Cheers Vic, I'm on my 3rd morning coffee cup! It is 10 am here now.

 

By the way, if Swan/Bull is also Naptha, why the change to Ronson? I would use them the same. Additives or not it is basically the same stuff - or so I gather from the other posts. The white film is removed with alcohol, I understand, and I wouldn't use that on shellac of course...Just trying to keep a perspective on the budget hobby situation which in my case is a little weird since I spend the money on the expensive stuff most of the time, go figure if that's just another hobby: spending!

 

Just a thought !?

[mwilkes]

I might try brake cleaner - some of them are a Butane/Propane/Naptha combination...others are tetrachloroethylene based (i.e. one-dip!).

 

Think I have some in the shed - will keep you posted...

[bytes2doc]

I've started using a US and cleaning with pure mineral spirits and rinsing in denatured alcohol, without any problems and no residue that I can see. Any one see a problem with this technique?

[haratua]

Do you guys use lighter fluid on ultrasonic cleaner? Also, what do you use for rinsing after?

[Geo]

Do you guys use lighter fluid on ultrasonic cleaner? Also, what do you use for rinsing after?

Copied from a previous post:-

"The first thing I do when I strip a watch is wash the parts in a container with lighter fuel. This gets rid of most of the oily residue before using the ultrasonic bath. If the movement is really gummed up, I will let the parts soak overnight.

I use a small amount of water soluble “carburettor cleaner” dissolved at a ratio of about 1 part cleaner to10 parts water in the ultrasonic bath. I heat this up to about 30C then clean the parts for 3mins. The parts are then rinsed I fairly hot water and rinsed again in alcohol before being gently blow dried on a clean sheet of good quality kitchen towel.

If I am having real difficulties cleaning the parts (dried oil in jewels) I will put the movement in a jar of lighter fuel and hold the jar in the ultrasonic cleaning solution for three minutes at a time until the jewels are clean. The ultrasonic vibrations penetrate the jar and agitate the lighter fuel. DO NOT PUT LIGHTER FUEL DIRECTLY INTO THE ULTRASONIC CLEANER!!

This maybe conflicts with professional cleaning methods, but it works for me."

I do not usually rinse if I use lighter fuel as described above, but I do give the parts a clean in fuel to take the worst off before using the ultrasonic bath.

[Vich]

Just an observation but in Aldi yesterday looking at their version of "white spirit" and according to the bottle it is 100% naphtha.

[mwilkes]

I bought some brake cleaner & checked the MSDS - it's pure naptha. Leaves things nice and clean and you end up feeling pleasantly woozy after a while... 

 

Also picked up some Bergeon one-dip which is 99% trichloroethylene . Bergeon makes the proud claim that it deliberately leaves a film on the parts as a corrosion inhibitor, which is probably fair enough.

 

No rinsing required in either case.

 

Now to find a substitute for epilame...

[Daniel]

I am planing on getting a watch cleaning machine but for now what is something I can use to clean my watch movements .i have seen some talk in other post about (lighter fluid ) .are y'all talking about the kind you put in a zippo lighter?

And all so do y'all recommend a ultrasonic cleaner or the one that spins in a jar ?? And Ty for any help you my have on my ?? :)

[DJW]

I am planing on getting a watch cleaning machine but for now what is something I can use to clean my watch movements .i have seen some talk in other post about (lighter fluid ) .are y'all talking about the kind you put in a zippo lighter?

And all so do y'all recommend a ultrasonic cleaner or the one that spins in a jar ?? And Ty for any help you my have on my ?? :)

Hi Daniel,

This is a pretty common topic that comes up quite a bit. I was going to suggest doing a search for it on the forums, but it took me a while  to find the search function! :geek:

 

Anyway, if you haven't read this post, it might have a few answers for you!

 

http://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/285-ultrasonic-cleaners/?hl=%2Bultrasonic+%2Bcleaner

 

Regards,

DJW

[Daniel]

Ty DJW I will read the post and see if it is what I am looking for :)

[PadraicB]

I plan on just purchasing one of the Elma or L&R solutions specifically for use with watch parts and ultrasonic cleaning. I'll be using the described method of keeping the cleaner and two rinses (to remove the cleaner which might leave a residue or continue doing its "cleaning" too long) in glass jars, put inside the cleaner which is pre-filled with water. Glass is very good at transmitting ultrasonic so that should work just fine. It would then be advisable to avoid any plastic trays/containers since plastic will definitely weaken the ultrasonic power. Perhaps some metal mesh baskets for the really small parts - fishing them out of a jar one by one sounds like one of those irritating tasks ;).

 

You can make do with cheaper alternatives like lighter fluid, but that stuff is really flammable. I did a bit of research before, so bear this in mind. The flashpoint of Elma WF Pro Cleaner is 30-40 °C, the Elma Suprol rinse is 23-25 °C, and lighter fluid is 4 °C. One of these three belongs nowhere near electronic equipment. Bear in mind that electronic equipment can fail, and the failure may involve a heat source. I've seen reviews for ultrasonic cleaners where the plastic casing has melted or the seals have failed letting the liquid content run out the electric flex inlet! Glass can also fail if exposed to sudden heat or just if it was flawed to start with. It may be safe enough for manual cleaning work in small amounts, but I'd keep it well away from any potential spark source.

[Daniel]

What would be a good but chep ultrasonic cleaner .just to get me going for now .i found me two old wrist watch movements to be my frist test dummies lol :p hopeing to get the level 1 tool kit they got for sell at (time zone watch school ) looks like a good one to me .

[bobm12]

Which one of the level 1s are you getting Daniel if I may ask? Some come complete with even a case and all you need to make a watch once you are done.

[Daniel]

That is the one I was looking at .it is the frist movement in that list . I will look up the link to it in a few .still at work :)

[Daniel]

can't get the link to work but ya it is the (ETA 7520 movement) and the SS case that fits it . no fun in working on a watch you don't get to wear :D

[bobm12]

Yes, the KIT-1-ETA-2750-case, I chose the same movement although I had already most of the tools so the complete kit was out of the question.

 

I agree completely, if you made it you most wear it! There is a high level of satisfaction and pride in doing so. I do with all the ones I've made and kept!

 

By the way, I also bought some of the "substitute" movements on line (cheap) so I had a wider range of "experiences" through the class. Funny enough, I've never cased the 2750 and I was seriously thinking about giving it one with the "on-line watch school" wording on it...since they don't give out certificates.

 

Substitute movements for Level one: UT 6498, UT 6497, ETA 6498-1, ETA 6497-1, ETA 2801 (- , -1 or -2), ETA 2804-2, ST 96, ST 974, ST 969 and TISSOT 245. They come on ebay at good prices...sometimes.