Jump to content

Omega Deville Cal 625


maz

Recommended Posts

Hello All,

 

Though I'm late, but Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

 

I did it.  With Marc's videos and your encouragement I was able to service a tiny Omega DeVille Cal 625.  The watch had issues with the stem settings and it turned out that part of the Setting Lever Spring was broken.  It actually  fell out when I opened the case.  So I ordered a new spring and a mainspring.

 

When the parts came I proceeded.  I used up a few cartons of cigarettes (for all you anti-smokers out there, I know I should quit but...) because that thing is tiny but I was able to take it apart, clean it and more amazingly put it back together.

 

I actually made a couple of YouTube videos about it but I had to take out the sound (too much cursing).  Actually I took the sound out and replaced with No-Copyright music because I had the music on and those songs are copyrighted.

 

Anyway, thank you all for you support and thank you Marc for all the useful videos and great advise.

 

Onwards and Upwards (by that I mean Onwards: more watches and Upwards: normal sizes)

 

Cheers,

 

Maz

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I would love to hear your constructive criticism

Nice job! I would not have the dial, face down, rub against the mat and would have handle it by the feet and edges.

 

Also, I can see you put great care during this, your first time overhaul. Well done!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My pleasure! I admire your guts for starting with such a tiny watch, in most cases, -- although tempting because of the challenge -- the watch of choice is bigger. So, great job doesn't even start describing what you did...and it is all in camera! 

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 7 years later...

These are good movements (620,625) to work on, as parts are cheaply available - there's plenty of cheap movements for sale on ebay - no need to buy expensive new parts. You can buy a complete movement cheaper than a single new part.

For a beginner, they are a bit on the small side, but good practice. I work under a microscope, fiddly without. 

The 620 is similar to 625, except it runs at 21600 instead of 19800 A/h.

I'm working on a 620 at the moment. It has way to much endshake on the balance - which kills the amplitude.  I have a spare 620 for parts, and the endshake on that is as bad - strange. I swapped balances but it's just the same. I can't see anything wrong, so will have to shim it.  

Edited by mikepilk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ladies, gents,

For anyone else working on a cal 625, this official technical sheet with lubrication specs may be helpful (if not already known by everyone). 

Allow me to pair my contribution with a question: would you agree with the following "translation" into modern lubricants?

- "Synta - Visco - Lube oil" - - > Moebius 9504

- "Moebius oil for chronometers No1" - - > Moebius 9010, and 9415 for the pallet jewels 

- "Synta A Lube oil" - - > HP 1300 / 9104.

And would you really not lubricate the pallet staff pivots/jewels at all?? Or maybe a TINY amount of 9010..?

 

Cheers, 

Christian 

Screenshot_20230323_154408_OneDrive.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, Knebo said:

Ladies, gents,

For anyone else working on a cal 625, this official technical sheet with lubrication specs may be helpful (if not already known by everyone). 

Allow me to pair my contribution with a question: would you agree with the following "translation" into modern lubricants?

- "Synta - Visco - Lube oil" - - > Moebius 9504

- "Moebius oil for chronometers No1" - - > Moebius 9010, and 9415 for the pallet jewels 

- "Synta A Lube oil" - - > HP 1300 / 9104.

And would you really not lubricate the pallet staff pivots/jewels at all?? Or maybe a TINY amount of 9010..?

 

Cheers, 

Christian 

Screenshot_20230323_154408_OneDrive.jpg

I'm sorry, I was just trying to EDIT my post, but don't know how... is there a way?? 

I clearly made a mistake in my "translation of lubricants". Here my proposed CORRECTION for your thoughts:

 

- "Synta - Visco - Lube oil" - - > Moebius 9504

- "Moebius oil for chronometers No1" - - > HP 1300 / 9104 Moebius 9010, and 9415 for the pallet jewels 

- "Synta A Lube oil" - - > Moebius 9010 HP 1300 / 9104.

And would you really not lubricate the pallet staff pivots/jewels at all?? Or maybe a TINY amount of 9010..?

 

Sorry again for the double post.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't use such old lubrication tech sheets. Things have changed. Here is the Moebius oiling chart.

Personally, for just about all watches, I use :
9415 for pallet jewels
9010 for  fast moving  balance jewels, escapement wheel, centre seconds (and 4th wheel on small movements).
HP1300 (I did use D5) for slowing moving : gear train, barrel arbor, rotating keyless parts etc
Molykote DX - sliding keyless works. Cannon pinion. (Use HP1300/D5 if you don't have DX)
8200 grease for mainspring.

Pallet staff pivots are NEVER oiled (despite what Seiko sometimes suggest). Only the jewels with 9415

 

image.png.2ee93b51b348df2ff934f8c0dc43824d.png

2_Oil_Chart.pdf

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you @mikepilk !!

I have exactly those lubricants (after endless research on the minimum number of lubricants to buy. I feel validated by your reply/oiling chart 🙂 ), with the exception of Molykote DX. I use 9504 for most metal-on-metal applications. Would you agree with that alternative (on the canon pinion, I use HP1300, though, as you suggest)?

Cheers!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9504 looks similar to DX, and it does say use it for cannon pinions. So yes, carry on, lube away 😀

I use DX as I saw it recommended (first by Mark), and it's relatively cheap - you can buy a 50g tube for about £14 whereas 5ml of 9504 is about £32

image.png.a59857b9b1ff12302f95631b16eec50e.png

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great, thanks.

Lube away, I shall 😁

The difference in quantity between the DX and the 9504 don't really matter to me -- I'll still need years to finish the 5ml of 9504. But yea, even when ignoring the difference in quantity, 9504 is still more than double the price...😑

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Knebo said:

Great, thanks.

Lube away, I shall 😁

The difference in quantity between the DX and the 9504 don't really matter to me -- I'll still need years to finish the 5ml of 9504. But yea, even when ignoring the difference in quantity, 9504 is still more than double the price...😑

I calc it as nearly 20x more expensive, so worth remembering when you've used the 9504 😀

I'm oiling a 620 now, in between typing. 

One problem with smaller (ladies) watches, is that due to the smaller part sizes, the frictional forces are relatively larger - especially on the smaller balance due to it's much lower inertia. Therefore parts have to be really clean and free from dust and dirt to get good performance. As a beginner I started on pocket watches, because they are larger and easier to start on, and that big balance is a lot easier to get swinging nicely. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cool, good luck with your 620!!

Yes, 20x the price is the correct calculation drop-for-drop. Then again, I probably won't even finish my 5ml of 9504 before it's expiry date (plus 1-2 years). And with the DX, I'd probably end up throwing away 90% of the tube by the time it expires. 

I did also start with 2-3 pocket watches, then 2 men's watches (last one, a Vostok 2414, with a good final result; amplitude around 300°)... and now already the 625 (for a friend!) 😬. I'm very nervous about it, but also very excited, thrilled. And well, worst case, I can get a whole replacement movement for around 80 USD off eBay.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Knebo said:

"Synta - Visco - Lube oil" - - > Moebius 9504

I find this a very interesting cross reference. Unless you just happen to remember which I do you could go to the website below where they still lists the names of their oils before they had nifty numbers. But classically the Synta-Visco-Lube is 9020. That's an oil my favorite oil for use in just about everything. Then the 9504 is my favorite grease which I wouldn't classify as an oil.

20 hours ago, Knebo said:

 would you really not lubricate the pallet staff pivots/jewels at all?? Or maybe a TINY amount of 9010..?

there's several reasons not to oil the pallet fork pivots unless you're Seiko. Then depending upon the tech sheet or maybe when the tech sheet was produced because I've seen at least one caliber that was yes no yes for the pivots but classical a as long as is not Seiko you never oil the pivots at least in a watch. There is several reasons for this in that it's not considered a revolving component so it has  basically nothing to wear out. It has to move really really fast and lubrication can have a dampening effect. In other words you going to lose amplitude and if you are using non-synthetic oils and with time when the oils go bad did really lose amplitude. But it makes you happy a tiny bit of 9010 isn't going to hurt it just isn't going to help either.

https://www.moebius-lubricants.ch/en

then at the next link you get a whole bunch of documents download all that you like but while you're here get number 40 it's for lubrication.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/document/search?SearchString=working

21 hours ago, Knebo said:

For anyone else working on a cal 625, this official technical sheet with lubrication specs may be helpful (if not already known by everyone). 

then the problem with official tech sheets are well watches can be old and tech sheets can be old. Plus the tech sheets change with time typically was Omega they appear to be going for heavier lubricants. So then there's the other little problem with the tech sheets they don't tell you everything. I can the case of Omega they will refer you to other documents like the working instructions that is a link for up above but that's only a tiny fraction of the actual working instructions. So if you have the working instructions you find out that they use things like epilam which may explain why they use insanely thin lubricants in my opinion. Unfortunately all those other working instructions are hiding behind well basically you're never going to get those.

for instance they have a working instruction on timing specifications here is the page covering the relevant movements in this discussion.

Omega 620 timing specifications.JPG

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

for instance they have a working instruction on timing specifications here is the page covering the relevant movements in this discussion.

Omega 620 timing specifications.JPG

That's interesting @JohnR725,  especially "Amplitude 24h". They are lower than I expected. A note for the "amplitude fanatics" - relax 🤣

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

hey are lower than I expected. A note for the "amplitude fanatics" - relax 

I rather like amplitude fanatics. If you look at the technical specifications of the Swiss companies typically the only worry about amplitude at 24 hours usually in a specific position or basically they only worry about amplitude at 24 hours. The Omega timing  specification as you've noticed as long as the watch maintains time the amplitude can be low very low. Low enough that on this group would have to probably tranquilize some people.

then even though the timing specification goes on for a sizable quantity of numbers they even have vintage in case it's not listed. No notice that the acceptable amplitude for the smaller watches is much lower but the timing specifications are not as great. Then in case you're curious what three position timekeeping as I've attached that. That's all they officially care about but if you're testing your watch it's always nice to look at it and six positions just to see what it's doing just remember the official timekeeping specification is not for six position unless it's a chronometer. Which typically a ladies movement is not.

 

vintage Omega timing specifications.JPG

timing positions Omega watches.JPG

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am pretty sure there is something in our water supplies these days that encourages anxiety, stress and obsession about the smallest details. I know for computer networking and the internet consulting engagements where people are getting hot and bothered about a single ping test packet being dropped somewhere across the Atlantic which doesn’t even use the same protocol as normal data transfer which uses a protocol which self recovers the dat packet. They could be very difficult to convince that until overall packet loss exceeds 1% it was all working as expected. I suspect we are somewhat affected as well with amplitude and other bits of watchmaking folklore.

 

Tom

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Similar Content

  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Dell fancy a challenge🤣   https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/285785684626?itmmeta=01HT29WVJY21Q94C73GYHGBTFX&hash=item428a277a92:g:15YAAOSwNRVmBAUz&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA0DIe4QLQBW66rSyIMiyBuk8GY%2B86pQ%2BQnxGbcNq7egAGe5DIs9YMmiWJIbZtMSxwNJIiJxuojbq523IeUSBQ6pJEIQ0tfz2ChrBR03BksmKINyklg1IK4GAfAcYY9Hta9wVeSZSZN7ZCNAfZTgKs9c4%2BUIUZ3Qjc3QjUXDn2uPRo1FiYOEewMG5A26EXb%2BclBgrqtbOmM6P3bea%2F8ZImOAXNI1HtbmtMk84pIGoM6ISwaM1PKFuADtTFMccS5e3ZjndCbXYXHrW3CecsV0edw3M%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR8q588nQYw Darwin’s theory of evolution has not been proven to be absolutely.  😀 
    • A already know the size movement I have the problem is the dial a had purchased has a dimension 20.6mm wide a want to find a watch case that going to fit the dial perfectly 
    • Hi.  I would like to take issue here regarding battery driven , watches, clocks,etc. I will and do repair these clocks in fact I have sever al in my collection as well as the regular mechanical ones. I have one on my mantle piece over 60 years old tha belonged to my wife’s Aunt,  long gone Iam afraid and it has been cleaned etc and never missed a beat and is accurate. Every one has their preduices as regards Electrical /electronic Horology but I regard it as part of the progress time line of the art of Horology and to be treated as such. Like Darwin’s theory of evolution it evolved.  Two cavemen knocking rocks together and a shard broke off , looking at it he worked out if it was stuck on the end of a stick he would have a spear. Likewise his pal seeing what he was up to picked up a piece  and did the same, now that’s evolution. Some clockmaker decided to build a clock that ran with a battery and no spring to wind up and break, progress and both the mechanical and battery driven clocks evolved, the battery ones got better to the point that if it broke you changed the complete unit. Likewise watches did the same but both can be repaired by people who approach Horology with an open mind without preduice.  We all have our likes and dislikes bu I for one would never dismiss any technology because I don’t like it.   The mobile phone is a good example of modern technology at work as is the automotive industry. There buttons and switches in my car I don’t use because to me they are not nesessary but I still drive the car.
    • I haven't gone through all the reading of what it might be or not. The first thing I would do if nothing obvious stands out is replace the mainspring, you have to start at the source of the power. Nine times out of ten that is the problem.  
    • Haha. You're just in a wicked mood today John 😅
×
×
  • Create New...