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Hi jdrichard, don't sweat the oil! You only need to add the moebius 8200, a grease and you are good. Moebius 9010 can be used for most anything including pallet jewels in low beat movements. The 8200 is for the barrel, inside...it will do. K22 for the keyless works. There you have it problem solved.

 

Cleaning by hand is done by soaking the parts in lighter fluid and pushing air in with the blower so the fluid is gently agitated. You still need to peg all the jewels before this operation (I do regardless of any cleaning method). Then you can dry the parts with the blower...and by blower I mean the hand pump to puff air on the watches...the watchmaker's tool.

 

So, there you have it in an nutshell...but you need to search both topics in the forum since there is an abundance of information on both that is impossible to convey in one single thread or post. Also, Mark's videos demonstrate the right technique.

 

I hope this helps,

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

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I recommend 8301 instead of 8200. The reason is that it's graphite loaded which is supposed to help on preserving metal on parts with linear attrition like auto barrel walls. It is also used on Seiko's for the magic lever system.

Since lubricants are an area of personal opinions I'm not surprised or critical when people uses different ones.

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My take on this, being an area of personal opinions:

 

Moebius 8200 is for mainspring barrels and has been a long-time standard for manual wind watches. When working with automatic watches you may get better results using Moebius 9020 or Moebius 9141. Moebius 8200 can also be used on stems and winding gears of older manual wind watches.

 

Moebius 8300 is for mainspring barrels and has been a long-time standard for clocks of all sizes. Moebius 8300 is slightly thicker than Moebius 8200 and is used in mainspring barrels of watches when 8200 is deemed too thin. Moebius 8300 can also be used on stems and winding gears of mechanical movements from all sizes from small 5 ligne watch movements to large tower clocks. Moebius 8300 can also be used on winding gears of quartz watches.

 

Moebius 8301 is is a solid grease particularly for winding mechanisms and springs & slip springs. This grease has a wide range of applications. Same as 8300 but with graphite.

 

Also:

 

Moebius 8217 (Glissalube 20) is an anti-sliding grease for the walls of the barrels of automatic watches.

 

Moebius 8201 with Molybdenumdisulphide: Recommended for the Bolova Accutron watch movements, Moebius 8201 is the same as Moebius 8200, however 8201 has some Molybdenumdisulphide added to it.

 

Moebius 8212; for aluminum barrels; strong braking.

 

Moebius 8213; for brass barrels; strong braking.

 

So, the choice is very wide...8200 will do it all if you are not picky! A different way of applying it is normally used -- thicker oil is rubbed, lighter oil is deposited -- in general...nothing is written on stone.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

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So, the choice is very wide...8200 will do it all if you are not picky! A different way of applying it is normally used -- thicker oil is rubbed, lighter oil is deposited -- in general...nothing is written on stone.

 

It depends on what one does. As mentioned before, on Seikos 8301 does everything, but 8200 has no use.

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on Seikos 8301 does everything, but 8200 has no use

Not quite, 8200 is the grease to "rub" the spring so it will "flow" in its "coils", while S4 is used on the barrel drum itself (I particularly don't use 8301 in Seikos). Again, all this is a matter of preference and for me it works fine.

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Not quite, 8200 is the grease to "rub" the spring so it will "flow" in its "coils", while S4 is used on the barrel drum itself (I particularly don't use 8301 in Seikos). 

 

The thing is that I recommend not to open the barrel on auto Seikos, and even if done, not to lubricate the mainspring :) 

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Thanks for the recommendation, it just came a little late after about 50 or 60 successfully serviced Seikos running flawlessly for more than 2 years on happy customers wrists! :)

 

Great to know. I still believe that with Seiko replacing a barrel complete or mainspring is better, when possible.

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  • 1 year later...
On 1/8/2016 at 2:11 AM, mwilkes said:

@hiren it took me about 9 months and some fairly intense cramming in the weeks leading up to the exams. I didn't work through the course in sequence - I focused on the bits I was interested in and crammed the rest!

I was fortunate to have enough tooling - mostly from making model steam engines (a hobby that has ceased since I became a watch junkie)

Hi mwilkes, sorry to dredge this up from a year ago.  I'm considering taking the BHI Technician DLC course, and I'm trying to get an indication of the amount of time required.  You mentioned that it took you about 9 months - may I ask if that was working full-time or part-time on the course?  I'm asking because I have the opportunity to take some time off of work for this (up to 6 months) and I'm wondering how much I can get through during that period of time if I spend 40 hours/wk on the course.  Thanks!

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  • 5 months later...

Guys, apologies to start this thread again, I, m at the point of strongly thinking of doing the BHI distance course, it's now £600 for the technicians qualification, now thats alot of money to throw at a course that to be honest seems to concentrate on clock movements, which although working on the same principle as a watch movememt isn't a watch movement. 

Would some one be willing to email/message me a few of the lessons so I can get an idea of what im giving up my hard earned wages for. I know it's a big ask as you have paid out the money and it would seem that I, m free loading from yourselves, but I hope you see my point of the expense.

I would gladly do Marks course and although you get a certificate of achievement at the end of each stage unfortuantly ( and no offence meant ) they are only good to Hang on your loo wall in the eyes of the industry. The great thing about Marks course is that you/I can see exactly what you are paying for before you part with your hard earned cash, making it a very attractive proposition but again it's not recognised by the industry and you will get no affiliation to the BHI.

So any help info would be greatly recieved, many thanks guys.

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If you seriously want a qualification that I should recognised by the industry, you will have to bite the bullet, pay up and do the BHI course.  I do think it's a bit cheeky to expect someone to email you the content.

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The BHI course is great. You will need a mentor to help you with your record of repairs. If I were you I would work with your mentor for free. Work hard. Study hard. Read around the subject. Immerse yourself in all things Horological.Practice. Practice. Practice. Make mistakes then practice again. Don’t do any commercial work for at least a year. Talk to watchmakers. Visit workshops. You will then gain sufficient experience to be able to start working on watches commercially. The BHI course teaches you precision and attention to detail. However, nothing beats hands on experience. You don’t get anything for free. There are no shortcuts to success. If you want to be a successful at your profession you have to put the hours in. I’m sure(hopefully) others will agree!!
Ps
Enjoy what you do!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I was exchanging opinions with a British professional that is very well known on this forum and is here, from the the beginning.

He shared my impression that BHI may have somehow offset goals or at least execution for their training. For example, for the first many months you're judged on your ability to file square. Which, don't get me wrong, is a great skill, but probably not the most urgent for a good repairer in 2017. However, when it comes to the cost, 600 pounds is not that much when you consider than opening a shop would cost at least 10 times more.

So I think that if one wants to be quickly productive, and right on the spot about what is actually needed in the profession today, the best course is to dwell on Mark's material and practice, practice, practice.

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Geo, If you read my post I didnt want the whole course just a couple of the lessons, maybe one from the beginning and one from the end, just so I could get an idea, I didn't ask for the whole course, yes I agree asking for the whole course content would need the neck of a giraffe and be very cheeky.

Peterburke340, many thanks for your reply, most informative, I hear what you are saying about practice practice practice, its something I do all the time, if you rou see any of my posts you will see that I have done quite a few jobs from cylinder escapements to 3 train westminster chime clock movements, to vintage omegas and replicas.obviously I ask lots of questions when I get to a sticky moment ( can't see the wood for the trees ) and members such as clockboy to name but one  have been hugely helpful with their advice and experience in helping me overcome a problem when I come up agaisnt one.

JDM, thanks for your input aswell, although you obviously have a much larger stash of disposable income than myself to be able to throw £600 at a course that you don't even know the content, obviously it's about watch/clock repair techniques. As for opening a shop/premises this was never on my mind, I, m quite an a complied tinkerer/hobbyist, and was looking at becoming acciociated to the BHI so that I could dare I say it give potential customers the warm fuzzy when they hand over their timepieces for repair/service. My main point is,  how much of the the course am I going to learn something new? As I said in my reply ive done work on wristwatches and clocks all successfuly. 

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11 hours ago, transporter said:

JDM, thanks for your input aswell, although you obviously have a much larger stash of disposable income than myself to be able to throw £600 at a course that you don't even know the content, obviously it's about watch/clock repair techniques. 

Actually I do know the content, have read in full all the training description, exams, costs etc. when I was interested in it myself. Then I've obtained various opinions which weren't so positive about it. And my point about the money is that when it comes to watches, 600 pounds is not that much - the implication is that to properly equip even just an home based shop much more is needed. Nothing to do with mine, your, or anybody else pockets.

Edited by jdm
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Thank you old hippy,  I did forget to mention your good self in supplying me with good clear instructions in the past when I've got stuck on a job, and again thank you for giving the information that you just gave ref the course, I know you studied yours a while ago and I believe your course material would most probably have been different (no offence intended ) with time that has passed, atleast you have given me something.

Jdm, thanks for your answer, as for 600 notes in the scheme of things when it come s down to it, it isn't alot but again it its,  take these examples, shop equipment, mine is pretty well set up, from a full staking set, to a favorite jeweling set, timing machine water proofing machine, oils greases, screw drivers loups lights tweezers etc etc etc, hopefully picking up a lathe this weekend coming, its all cost alot of money a damn sight more than £600, but every piece of equipment that I have purchased for my bench I have known what it does can find in depth information about each piece and how to use/get the best out of each product. 

Now take the BHI distance learning course, what information is there about each stage, nothing is there, apart from the extra expense for your exams and having to travel to certain centres to take your exams, this is my point, there is no information on each part of the course, if I go to my local college to do a course they will supply me with all the course content (albeit not what you can take away and study fully) and there in lies the problem with the BHI course, im not comfortable shelling out £600 plus exam and travelling costs on something that there is no readily available information as to its content.

I,m glad you have all the content to the course and I hope you  find it worthwhile and informative.

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21 minutes ago, transporter said:

I,m glad you have all the content to the course and I hope you  find it worthwhile and informative.

I don't have the course content, that is obtained either by paying or with an illegal copy.

Simply, I have found that the synopsis they provide, plus other information available online, was enough for me to decide not to pursue.

Personally, If and when I'll want to become a real good watch repairer I'll instead buy lots of books, tools, and watches to work on.

By the way I have basically the same tool set as you have, I think that is enough to tinker and restore affordable watches, but of corse not even close to be the real full equipment for a professional shop.

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Dean DK has several YouTube videos that cover his experience with horology. In this video he talks about his experience with the BHI course. His comments are generally positive. He is an extremely talented guy and maybe someone can talk him into joining this forum. 

 

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Jdm, cheers for your reply mate, basically you are as blind as I am to the actual content of the course, I too have found snippets here and there, I thought that you had the whole course, obviously a misunderstanding in reading your post, anyway back to the matter in hand, I don't intend in opening a shop, im fully employed and my job does involve me having to be away at a drop of a hat for periods of time, hence why giving my time free to my local smith whilst learning isn't practical  ( trust me I use him for help and have sat at his bench under his guidance and carried out a few repairs on jobs that I have taken on and got stuck with) my intention was to get acredited to the BHI purely for the customers that I do get have a nice warm fuzzy feeling when handing over their timepieces that I have studied and been tested by a recognised body that my work is up to par. 

Old hippy, nice to know people actually got/get pay rises haha, but as I just mentioned to Jdm, I am employed full time and not about to give up my job to do this full time in a shop, aswell as being accredited I was looking at doing the course as a new challenge for myself.

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4 hours ago, oldhippy said:

One other thing I remember is back in the 70’s if you passed and you were undertaking an apprenticeship your wages would be increased, I cannot remember by how much. Don’t know if it still applies.

 

Back in the 1970s there were numerous independent watch repair shops and watch repair schools. Once the major Swiss factories figured out that they could extort their customers by refusing to sell replacement parts and  threatening to cancel the warranties, if anyone except the factory opened the watch, the independent watch repair shop was doomed to extinction. This also spelled the end of the line for most of the watch schools and apprenticeships. The watch schools now are financed by the major watch factories (Swatch, Rolex etc.) to train people to work in their facilities. Unfortunately, although the schools are excellent, the factory job can't begin the provide the variety of challenges that can be learned from an independent repair shop. A student can graduate from a fine watch school and end up spending years black polishing balance cocks or loading staffs and balance wheels into a pneumatic staking press. In my view most of the interesting challenges are in the amateur sector repairing and restoring watches as a hobby. 

That said, the BHI course is one of the last home study accredited horological institutions that will offer their program to someone wishing to pursue watch restoration and repair as a hobby or even a part time business.

david

Edited by david
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