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Timezone Watch School Level 1 Overview / Review / Thingy


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Hi Guys,

 

Now that I've  got my desk sorted and Christmas out of the way of and the kids are spending the day at their grandparents house I have finally got time to start the Timezone watch school level 1 course that I bought the kit for about 4 months ago !

 

It occurred to me that someone else out there might be considering doing the course themselves so I though I would post a 'journal' of my experience with the course and give people an insight in to what to expect.

 

Here it goes...........

 

Firstly I feel that I should get some moaning off my chest before I start with the interesting stuff at hand, The timezone watch school tool kits are sold / distributed by otto frei and if im being honest I feel that I received poor service from them on this occasion. firstly after waiting for 2 weeks for my kit to arrive i contacted otto frei to see what the hold up was and was informed that a movement holder that i ordered at the same time as my tool kit was out of stock so my entire order was being held back until this was in stock (another 2 weeks) eventually after some moaning they agreed to send my kit out and would send the movement out at a later date when it came back in stock (result!)

 

Another week later my parcel arrived and upon checking the contents against the list of kit items i noticed that my tool kit was missing the dials and hands sets that should come with the kit.............another email was sent to otto frei and i was assured that the hands and dials would be sent out to me. Yet another week later and my dials / hands were delivered along with the movement holder that was originally out of stock, Awesome Right?.....WRONG, due to a mess up on otto frei's behalf instead of being billed for just the movement holder as i should of been otto decided to bill me for my complete original order again (almost $1000)

 

To cut a long story short this left me having to postpone a work trip to France as i didn't have enough funds left in my account to pay for my airfare until otto frei released the funds back to me which took 48 hours! to this day even though i have called them several times and sent numerous emails and even asked my bank to contact them i have never received an apology for their immense mess up. 

 

Moaning over - Back to the course

 

included in the course tool kit are the following items - however you can choose between a couple of different movements and either a loupe or optivisor version. Its also worth mentioning that the course itself along with access to the support forum is not included with the tool kits and must be purchased separate at a cost of $75

 

1 - ETA 2804-2 movement

1 - set of Bergeon screwdrivers with stand and spare blades

2 - Compartment parts trays

1 - movement cover

1 - bar of rodico

1 - Pithwood button

1 - Bergeon dust blower

1 - Bergeon 4040 movement holder

1 - #2 & #5 Dumont tweezers

1 - Optivisor with additional Optiloupe

1 - Box of Watch tissue 

2 - Dials and Hand sets for movement

1 - Bundle of pegwood

 

I also bought

1 - Case for movement with clear back

1 - Leather strap

 

post-1324-0-65787500-1451255065_thumb.jp

 

That's all for today but in the morning i will upload my progress with the course so far including some pictures.

if you are interested in the course then you can find details here http://www.timezonewatchschool.com/WatchSchool/

 

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Hi rolo,

 

Thank you for the review! It is good to see the different classes available out there how they keep and evolve.

 

IMHO, It seems the TZ is getting cheap (or expensive depends on the point of view). A couple years back when I took the course, they sent me a whole box of pith buttons and a full box of compartment trays! What has not changed is the moody way they have to do business: Bob Frei is easily annoyed by customers when they don't "give" him their wallet and their personnel, including himself, overall customer service and shipping is rather iffy. Nevertheless, they know about watches (apparently) and stock stuff that is otherwise hard to get from other sources...but then that is their business (not the TZ course section of it, which I believe is an independent matter).

 

If you look at the Ofrei page, it is hard to navigate, kind of a home brew stuff designed and updated by amateurs that never updated their original web page design skills learned years back...or never cared. Maybe, the real pros were fired a long time ago when that page was the standard for the internet...and it has become now home-maintained. A skill learned on the fly of what they could grasp from the original designers. Maybe, they sell so many Bergeon products and Swiss expensive parts that they don't care anymore and just want to enjoy the money they make...and the old one left by the real watchmakers in the family...who knows. The picture they leave with many a customer is kind of shaky at best...not a good image. Me as an example...mixed up feelings! Now, Borel (probably, or originally, some sort of partner, many miles away), is a different story but they don't stock everything...

 

Anyway, you are doing a great job with this review and please, keep us posted with your progress and adventures while you journey through the watchmaking jungle and your ups and downs with ofrei, your jungle outfitter! :)

 

BTW, is Machiel still the instructor? Make sure you read all the "conversations" with the students. Not only he gives advise but other students chip in and is very informative...and sometimes he can't give you a straight answer but you can complement it with the other posts.

 

Sorry if I ranted a bit about this course...in the end, it is still the best course out there for the price, regardless its shortcomings which are mainly human.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

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my complete original order again (almost $1000)

 

1 - ETA 2804-2 movement

1 - set of Bergeon screwdrivers with stand and spare blades

2 - Compartment parts trays

1 - movement cover

1 - bar of rodico

1 - Pithwood button

1 - Bergeon dust blower

1 - Bergeon 4040 movement holder

1 - #2 & #5 Dumont tweezers

1 - Optivisor with additional Optiloupe

1 - Box of Watch tissue 

2 - Dials and Hand sets for movement

1 - Bundle of pegwood

 

I also bought

1 - Case for movement with clear back

1 - Leather strap

 

 

$1000, Wow! My estimate buying the same equipment, but avoiding Bergeon and Dumont where possible (that is, buying Rodico only) is that one should be around $200. That is what I did and I'm very happy with what I got, leaving more funds for other tools and improvement. I'm not saying this to criticize but to help some future readers about the possible choices and costs involved with the hobby. One reason why I love this forum is because so far nobody has been snobby and silly about non-branded tools.

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$1000, Wow! My estimate buying the same equipment, but avoiding Bergeon and Dumont where possible (that is, buying Rodico only) is that one should be around $200. That is what I did and I'm very happy with what I got, leaving more funds for other tools and improvement. I'm not saying this to criticize but to help some future readers about the possible choices and costs involved with the hobby. One reason why I love this forum is because so far nobody has been snobby and silly about non-branded tools.

Hi Jdm,

The $1000 was for lots of other items I also ordered at the same time as buying the level 1 kit such as a timing machine etc, the kit itself including he movement was around £350

Thats certainly a smaller kit than what I was sent almost two years ago now. Sorry to hear of the mishaps too, but glad things are sorted out now.

Hi sstele

I think it was about 2 years when I first looked into it and I certainly remember there being more items in the kit (at the very least like Bobm12 said there used to be a full bag of pithwood and a full pack of trays) thanks for the reply.

Hi rolo,

Thank you for the review! It is good to see the different classes available out there how they keep and evolve.

IMHO, It seems the TZ is getting cheap (or expensive depends on the point of view). A couple years back when I took the course, they sent me a whole box of pith buttons and a full box of compartment trays! What has not changed is the moody way they have to do business: Bob Frei is easily annoyed by customers when they don't "give" him their wallet and their personnel, including himself, overall customer service and shipping is rather iffy. Nevertheless, they know about watches (apparently) and stock stuff that is otherwise hard to get from other sources...but then that is their business (not the TZ course section of it, which I believe is an independent matter).

If you look at the Ofrei page, it is hard to navigate, kind of a home brew stuff designed and updated by amateurs that never updated their original web page design skills learned years back...or never cared. Maybe, the real pros were fired a long time ago when that page was the standard for the internet...and it has become now home-maintained. A skill learned on the fly of what they could grasp from the original designers. Maybe, they sell so many Bergeon products and Swiss expensive parts that they don't care anymore and just want to enjoy the money they make...and the old one left by the real watchmakers in the family...who knows. The picture they leave with many a customer is kind of shaky at best...not a good image. Me as an example...mixed up feelings! Now, Borel (probably, or originally, some sort of partner, many miles away), is a different story but they don't stock everything...

Anyway, you are doing a great job with this review and please, keep us posted with your progress and adventures while you journey through the watchmaking jungle and your ups and downs with ofrei, your jungle outfitter! :)

BTW, is Machiel still the instructor? Make sure you read all the "conversations" with the students. Not only he gives advise but other students chip in and is very informative...and sometimes he can't give you a straight answer but you can complement it with the other posts.

Sorry if I ranted a bit about this course...in the end, it is still the best course out there for the price, regardless its shortcomings which are mainly human.

Cheers,

Bob

Hi Bob,

Thanks very much for the reply, I think you are correct about otto frei as They just didn't seem to care about the situation they had put me in and even denied taking the 2nd payment out of my account and told me that I would have to get my bank to call them and prove that it had been taken as it wasn't showing up on their system. Then when my bank attempted to contact them several times they didn't want to know and the money was eventually released in my account.

I also totally agree with you on the website it's not what you would expect in this day and age, in fact my 12 year old made website for a school project that was on par with this one.

Regards

Lee

Ps

Michiel is still the instructor and is still as vague about some questions as he used to be lol.

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TIMEZONE WATCH SCHOOL LEVEL 1 PART 1 (DATE DIAL FUNCTION REMOVAL)

 

Ok so the kids are out, all the jobs I've been  putting off all year have been done, the Mrs is sat reading a book and the house is silent (for once) so lets begin.

 

Although the course was written with the ETA 2801 in mind the course kit has been supplied with several different movements over the years, this is mainly due to stocks of the original 2801 being used up and becoming hard to get hold of. Since then the ETA 2801-2, 6497-1, 6498-1 & the ETA 2804-2 have all been used as the 'school movements' I chose to use the 2804-2 as I was informed that once the date dial function and associated parts had been removed the movement should be almost exactly the same as the 2801-2 and therefore making it easier to follow along with the original course.

 

Here is the ETA 2804-2 with the calendar works / date dale etc still in place.

post-1324-0-27152300-1451314589_thumb.jp

 

Every time Timezone use another movement for their course they add supplements to their website detailing any extra steps that need to be made in order to follow along with the course, my required supplement was this.  

post-1324-0-45678700-1451314845_thumb.jp

 

My first job was to remove the screw that holds the jumper guard in place and for some reason (for a new movement) it was unusually stiff, however I soon had it removed and the screw along with the jumper guard were in the parts tray. Next job was to remove the jumper spring which I expected to be under a certain amount of tension (as its a spring right?) so with that in mind I held one end of it in place with a piece of peg wood to stop it pinging across the room (learnt this from Mark's videos) while I got hold of the other end of it with the tweezers and placed it in the parts tray.

 

Then it was time to remove the date ring and the date drive wheel. The supplement doesn't give any instructions on how to remove the date dial so I carefully took hold of it with the tweezers (around the 3 o'clock position) and slowly tried lifting it up but it wouldn't come so I tried various other positions carefully around the dial but it wouldn't budge so at this point I put it down and went to make coffee.

 

Upon my return I picked up the tweezers and once again tried to remove the dial (again at the 3 o'clock position) and this time it lifted straight off without any trouble quickly followed by the date drive wheel (what was that all about lol?) The last remaining part for the date function to be removed is the date corrector but the supplement image informs me that this is to be removed later when the set bridge is removed so for now I left it where it was.

 

With the above all done and the hour wheel with washer placed on the movement for the photograph (these are supplied in a separate bag) my movement now looks likes this.

post-1324-0-80382300-1451316430_thumb.jp

 

More to follow shortly (5 year old wants me to build another huge Lego set)

 

PS can someone tell me if the images are adjusting ok or if they are too big and need editing please?

Edited by Rolo
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Excellent progress, Rolo, please keep going, it is a great way to do a walkthrough and details at the same time in a journey through watchmaking! This is an excellent thread and idea.

 

Nice Seiko movements, are they 7S26? What version? Just be careful when disassembling and assembling with the hairspring. It bends easily and then the movement will tick out of whack. Sometimes it will short or not with the timing going way off...

 

BTW, you can get additional practice with the TZ course if you invest in a Unitas 6498 or ETA 6498/97 from ebay. The Unitas is the original ETA for those and are available in vintage pocket watches size 16, usually from SEARS. Look for vintage pocket watches with incabloc in that size and the small seconds at 6 oclock for the 6498. Most parts are interchangeable with the new -1 version regardless, but the main plate and the pallet bridge are not for the originals. Make sure the watch is working if you decide to do this. You need to maybe get an eye for the right movement/watch or research before you bid/buy.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

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You are bsolutely right Marc, but that is the trivial solution to the online problem with watchmaking courses! We are discussing the non-trivial! :)

 

...and the journey will prove fantastic for all of us! :)

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

 

PS. Even then, we are here to assist -- and also benefit -- with that journey, isn't it great!

 

@Rolo: images look great!

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@BOBM12

 

The Seiko movements are 7s26c I believe. I picked them up from a local guy who does Seiko modding etc. I got 4 (new) for £100, its my intention to do some custom watches with them eventually.

I also bought a 7497-1 movement from a local seller on ebay for £90 to practice with but have often wondered which brands of pocket watches I could find these in for when im browsing on ebay so thanks.

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The 7S26c is probably better to work with since you don't need a special Philips screwdriver (size 1.2) to work on the top of the watch (only one screw!). Are they working ok? The actual model -- 7S26a, b or c -- should be on the oscillating weight.

 

The 6497 has the SS at 9 oclock. Check out Arnex, SEARS and Colibri brands but be careful with Colibri, they don't use much of those. If you find them, Colibri tends to be a little better or so is my limited experience. The movement is the same for all, either Unitas 6498 or 97 (less frequent). Just the finish and maybe the way they keep (probably because of a better case or price, owner taking better care because of expense, who knows) for Colibri that is.

 

Another movement you can get from the same TZ courses are: Tissot 2541 and FHF 96, they are still cheaper but not as big and enjoyable as the simple and resilient 6498 et al...they are all kind of simple and for the 1st part of the class but good practice in oiling and such on the second course.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

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TIMEZONE WATCH SCHOOL LEVEL 1 PART 2 (MOTION WORKS & KEYLESS WORKS)

 

Ok.  Next to be tackled is the motion works, for this to be done I had to remove the motion works cover plate which was held in place by a single screw. with that removed my movement looked like this

post-1324-0-16729400-1451325183_thumb.jp

 

Next to be removed was the minute wheel which was easily lifted off and placed into the parts tray. The canon pinion and the canon pinion drive wheel was then removed and then needed to be separated from each other, I did this by placing them on to a piece of pith wood then holding the drive wheel down with a piece of peg wood and taking hold of the canon pinion with a pair of tweezers and gently twisting it until it came free from the wheel. Both parts were then placed into the parts tray for safe keeping leaving my movement looking like this..........getting there aren't we ?

post-1324-0-78970500-1451325686_thumb.jp

 

Whilst I was 'on a roll' I decided to tackle the keyless works, This was easily accessed by removing the keyless works cover plate which was held in place by a single screw but unfortunately whilst transferring this to the parts tray I managed to 'ping' it out of the tweezers and into the deep pile carpet (someone warned me about doing this and I thought 'it wont happen to me') so the next 10 minutes were spent on my hands and knees with my magnet trying to retrieve it, which eventually I did and transferred it to the parts tray.

 

After a quick coffee break which was spent beating myself up over pinging the cover plate across the room it was time to remove the rest of the keyless works, but first I removed the last component of the date function (date corrector) and placed that with the rest of the calendar works in the parts tray. Next out was the set lever followed by the clutch return lever, switching lever, setting wheel, clutch and winding pinion with the stem.

post-1324-0-36519600-1451326699_thumb.jp

 

Hope your enjoying reading this as mush as im enjoying doing it and writing about it!

More to follow

 

 

 

 

 

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The 7S26c is probably better to work with since you don't need a special Philips screwdriver (size 1.2) to work on the top of the watch (only one screw!). Are they working ok? The actual model -- 7S26a, b or c -- should be on the oscillating weight.

 

The 6497 has the SS at 9 oclock. Check out Arnex, SEARS and Colibri brands but be careful with Colibri, they don't use much of those. If you find them, Colibri tends to be a little better or so is my limited experience. The movement is the same for all, either Unitas 6498 or 97 (less frequent). Just the finish and maybe the way they keep (probably because of a better case or price, owner taking better care because of expense, who knows) for Colibri that is.

 

Another movement you can get from the same TZ courses are: Tissot 2541 and FHF 96, they are still cheaper but not as big and enjoyable as the simple and resilient 6498 et al...they are all kind of simple and for the 1st part of the class but good practice in oiling and such on the second course.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

 

Hi Bob, thanks for the info. I've just looked on the back and they are the 7s26c movements, they work perfectly and just in case anybody is interested in the movement the seller on ebay was called sausagedogseiko - you can also find him here https://www.facebook.com/Sausagedogseiko

thanks for all the great movement info, im already searching ebay lol.

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Hi rahible,

 

I did the 3 levels too some time ago. I can tell you, I didn't start with any of the movements they were pushing. I did got them a little time later, but I simply took a big pocket watch and "destroyed" it to figure out what made it tick...or not tick since after I was done the only ticking were from the parts that were pinging about the room. From that experience, I learned about hairspring fragility, mainspring "blues" and wrong tweezers skills among other things. Then, I was ready for the course which I did in a mixture of first and second level all together and the Seiko tutorial as my break from Swiss tech, in between. Ebay was a great help and still is considering.

 

All in all, and regardless of the poor customer service from ofrei -- I didn't get every tool/movement from them but shopped around for better prices on same equipment -- poor documentation and all the other drawbacks, I learned quite a bit and got the "proper base" to really launch my hobby properly...TZ simply steered me in the right direction. Then, of course, I found WRT and that was the icing of the cake! :) 

 

The whole point is: we need to start somewhere and create some "base" to build our skills and knowledge. So, that was my maybe not perfect beginning.

 

Now, do I recommend TZ? I have mixed feelings about it. I would if there is no other option to go professional or for a hobby oriented past time. If anyone has the means and really want to work on watches and get proper money for that work, the best way I can think of is the Swatch course but requirements are really tough, including its 3 years apprenticeship without salary.

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Now, do I recommend TZ? I have mixed feelings about it. I would if there is no other option to go professional or for a hobby oriented past time. If anyone has the means and really want to work on watches and get proper money for that work, the best way I can think of is the Swatch course but requirements are really tough, including its 3 years apprenticeship without salary.

 

Just for the record, Bob, Swiss apprentices do have a small salary, even when they are not Swiss nationals. They must be resident - necessary for the Swatch course in CH. One of our sons was able to buy and run a car in his third year!

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The whole point is: we need to start somewhere and create some "base" to build our skills and knowledge. So, that was my maybe not perfect beginning.

 

Now, do I recommend TZ? I have mixed feelings about it. I would if there is no other option to go professional or for a hobby oriented past time.

 

Sounds like you and I had similar experiences with the course and came to similar conclusions.  

 

Knowing what I know now, as a hobbyist, I could have read "Watch Repair for Beginners: An Illustrated How-To Guide for the Beginner Watch Repairer" and "Practical Watch Repairing"; price shopped ebay and amazon for tools; and picked up cheap old pocket watches at flea markets to practice on.  That would have saved me hundreds of dollars.

 

But when you first start out with anything new, you don't know what you don't know.  I too have mixed feelings about recommending the courses (and had bad experiences with otto frie), but I don't regret going through them.

 

OP your going to have fun with it, and I look forward to your follow up posts.

Edited by rahible
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Hi Colin,

 

That is good to know, thanks for the correction. Maybe it is only in CH or the school available here is a different one. The thing is, here, Swatch (?) have changed the rules. Maybe it has to do with taxes or business operations, who knows. They train you for free (tuition), that's a given but the rest, the only 8 students accepted each year, have to come up with, including the money for the tools they eventually keep: about US$5000. The course is 3 years of intensive, full time training.

 

This is the school --- in Miami -- I'm talking about:

http://www.nghayekwatchmakingschool.org/The-Schools/miami/General-Information.aspx

 

I believe that in general the watchmaking profession was almost disappearing in this parts of the world until recently. I'm still looking for a school in the area but not much luck, though.

 

In any case, good to hear and talk to you, my friend!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

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TIMEZONE WATCH SCHOOL LEVEL 1 PART 3 (BALANCE ASSEMBLY & PALLET LEVER)

 

After turning the movement over now is the moment I've been dreading, Removing the balance !

The reason for me not looking forward to this part is because when I last attempted this part about 3 years ago I lost my temper which resulted in me ruining the hairspring which quickly progressed into me throwing the movement in to the bin (stupid I know!) and putting the tools I had bought on ebay and walking away from the hobby.  

 

With this in mind and determined not to let history repeat itself I turned the movement over, took a deep breath and started to unscrew the single screw that holds the balance cock in place. Once unscrewed it was time to try and remove the balance cock with attached balance wheel and hairspring and attempt to put it in the parts tray without damaging the spring (this is where it went wrong for me last time)

 

I had seen some people on YouTube slightly rotating the balance cock when attempting to remove it in order to allow the balance wheel to slide out easier so I thought i would see if it would work for me. I took hold of the balance cock with my tweezers and gently lifted it away from the plate while slowly turning it at the same time and before I knew it I had the balance assembly away from the plate and into the parts tray, RESULT !!!

 

After high fiving myself :D    it was time to remove the pallet lever bridge and the pallet lever which was done with no fuss at all and also stored safely in the parts tray leaving my movement looking like this.

post-1324-0-62855100-1451413286_thumb.jp

 

More to follow shortly.

 

 

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...Removing the balance !...when I last attempted this part about 3 years ago I lost my temper which resulted in me ruining the hairspring which quickly progressed into me throwing the movement in to the bin (stupid I know!) and putting the tools I had bought on ebay and walking away from the hobby.

Wow, Rolo! Something similar happened to me! I also ruined the hairspring on my first attempt to remove and safely store it. I also lost my temper, blamed my mother-in-law, drove to her house and threw the stool I had sat on while working on the watch to her head, billed her for the balance complete and also for the tools I needed to restore it while she was in the hospital recovering (I added those to the hospital bill), and because I was not satisfied and in anger, I put her --- mind me, free shipping -- on ebay. Haven't I not been that angry -- but still angry -- I would have charged shipping. Then drove back home and lovingly put the rest of the movement I had been working on in its parts tray.

 

To this day, she hasn't talked to me...or written...I believe some guy from I don't know what country won the bid and gave it as a present to his worst enemy...something like that. Poor enemy! :)

 

Just kidding man! I just couldn't help it! :D

 

But nice progress and in my mind you are doing great and going fast!

 

Keep it up!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

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