Spare parts for Orient Union cal. 46E40

[dancad]

Hello,

As I am in the learning process of servicing watches, I am struggling to find spare parts especially for this Orient Union cal. 46E40. I need a new mainspring and two DiaFix springs (which I managed to : loose one, break the other) - very nasty springs.

I wonder if someone can give me a hand. I found this very nice thread

, but I cannot reply there anymore and the owner @VWatchie is not active anymore ?! 

Any help will be highly appreciated. 

Cheers,

Dan.

[tomh207]

VWatchie is still very active on the site. You may not know but all new members posts are individually moderated for a while so your post won’t appear immediately, we do try very hard to get to them as quickly as we can.

 

Tom

[VWatchie]

Dan, sorry I didn't reply to your PM, I've been busy with so much lately that I forgot it.

Unfortunately, you won't be able to find any spare parts for the Orient calibres unless they have changed their policy since I looked into it. This is regrettably the story for most brands today. Russian calibres and Sellita calibres don't have any restrictions. The way it should be, the right to repair!

Anyway, your best option is likely to try to find a donor movement on eBay.

Best of luck and welcome to WRT! 

[AndyGSi]

Can you measure the original mainspring.

What do the springs look like.

[dancad]

4 hours ago, tomh207 said:

VWatchie is still very active on the site. You may not know but all new members posts are individually moderated for a while so your post won’t appear immediately, we do try very hard to get to them as quickly as we can.

 

Tom

Hi Tom,

Yes, I realized that but in the thread I mentioned above I do not even have the option to reply to it, I guess because it's an older thread, from 2020 (if I remember correctly) ?!

Dan.

[dancad]

4 hours ago, VWatchie said:

Dan, sorry I didn't reply to your PM, I've been busy with so much lately that I forgot it.

Unfortunately, you won't be able to find any spare parts for the Orient calibres unless they have changed their policy since I looked into it. This is regrettably the story for most brands today. Russian calibres and Sellita calibres don't have any restrictions. The way it should be, the right to repair!

Anyway, your best option is likely to try to find a donor movement on eBay.

Best of luck and welcome to WRT! 

No worries, glad to have your reply now, never too late

I actually heard people talking about these issues with servicing inexpensive watches, being almost impossible to find spare parts, especially for japanese brands. I guess it's easier and cheaper to just buy a new watch (in this case around 150euro) than struggling to repair one. But that's a problem for people like me who want to learn this incredible skill on inexpensive watches obviously, so if I cannot find the parts I cannot service the watch, simple as that...and sad.

Ah and btw, here in Berlin watchmakers do not or cannot service this watch due to...guess what ?! Same issue, no easy option to find spare parts for it

Edited January 23 by dancad

[dancad]

3 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

Can you measure the original mainspring.

What do the springs look like.

Hi. In the thread from @VWatchieyou can see a bunch of cool photos in details. I took some out with the barrel and the new spring he installed...but unfortunately no other infos. As of now I do not have a precise way of measuring it myself  

I've spent a lot of time searching for this compatible spring with the code GR2378X but absolutely no results found anywhere. I even contacted different shops that sell watch parts. 

[tomh207]

11 minutes ago, dancad said:

Hi Tom,

Yes, I realized that but in the thread I mentioned above I do not even have the option to reply to it, I guess because it's an older thread, from 2020 (if I remember correctly) ?!

Dan.

That’s strange Dan, on the first page of a thread, right at the top there should be a reply button. In addition there should be a text box after the last post and you just enter your reply there. I’m not sure what’s going on there but if it happens again please post in the forum support section or contact any or all of the moderators.

 

Tom

[AndyGSi]

1 hour ago, dancad said:

Hi. In the thread from @VWatchieyou can see a bunch of cool photos in details. I took some out with the barrel and the new spring he installed...but unfortunately no other infos. As of now I do not have a precise way of measuring it myself  

I've spent a lot of time searching for this compatible spring with the code GR2378X but absolutely no results found anywhere. I even contacted different shops that sell watch parts.

Not sure where you've been looking for the mainspring?

I was expecting you tO post your own photos but I'll have a look at the other post for the DiaFix Springs.

Edit

Presuming you mean these springs I'd take a chance on one or both of these.

 

 

Edited January 23 by AndyGSi

[dancad]

6 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

Not sure where you've been looking for the mainspring?

I was expecting you tO post your own photos but I'll have a look at the other post for the DiaFix Springs.

Edit

Presuming you mean these springs I'd take a chance on one or both of these.

The photos I took are not as clear as the ones he took. Sorry I was at work and I forgot to post the DiaFix springs, but yes, those exactly !

For the main spring, I mainly used google and a few websites I've discovered while searching, I wrote emails to several of them as I didn't find the exact same code in their website stock and got the same answer each time, that they do not have. I think one shop was from UK as well and this from The Netherlands: https://www.spareparts-watches.com/

And thank you for the fast reply !!! I really appreciate. 

I'll have a look.

Dan

Edited January 23 by dancad

[VWatchie]

I'm following this thread and still don't get notifications when new posts have been added. That's a first 

On 1/23/2025 at 1:36 PM, dancad said:

I guess it's easier and cheaper to just buy a new watch (in this case around 150euro) than struggling to repair one. But that's a problem for people like me who want to learn this incredible skill on inexpensive watches obviously

That's true, but many vintage wristwatches often hold sentimental value, and for the owner, that value can sometimes be on par with luxury watches. This creates a strong incentive to service and repair them. Often, though not always, the owner wishes to preserve the original movement, even though it would, when possible, be cheaper to replace it entirely.

I understand that it might feel difficult for emotional reasons, but just as many of us believe that politics and sports don’t mix, I feel the same way about politics and watches. Yes, I recommend Russian wristwatches/movements (Vostok, Poljot, Raketa, etc.) for those new to servicing and repair. They are very affordable, and unique in their appearance, yet have the same basic construction as any Swiss movement.

I’m particularly fond of Vostok’s calibres 2409 and 2414, which are manual, as well as 2415 and 2416, which are automatic. All of them are constructed in essentially the same way, with minor variations. An interesting variation of calibre 2416 is calibre 2431, which is a 24-hour movement. Here is my service walkthrough of calibre 2431 if you'd like to see some pictures, and here is my service walkthrough of calibre 2409 (completely without complications). On eBay, you can find countless used Vostok wristwatches, and it’s not uncommon to find an entire lot of used movements for very little money.

On 1/23/2025 at 1:41 PM, dancad said:

I've spent a lot of time searching for this compatible spring with the code GR2378X but absolutely no results found anywhere.

It’s not possible to replace the original mainspring with a Swiss replacement spring, something I discovered after completing the service. The problem is that the bridle on the Swiss mainspring is thinner than on the original spring, which causes the spring to slip far too early. This, in turn, significantly reduces the power reserve. I recommend using the original mainspring. Here is a very interesting video on the subject.

On 1/23/2025 at 8:48 PM, dancad said:

The photos I took are not as clear as the ones he took. Sorry I was at work and I forgot to post the DiaFix springs, but yes, those exactly !

There’s a good chance they might fit, and it’s worth a try, but there’s no guarantee. There are differences between Orient and Seiko movements, but hopefully, they use the same Diafix springs.

[VWatchie]

1 hour ago, VWatchie said:

I'm following this thread and still don't get notifications when new posts have been added. That's a first 

I went through my notifications and saw that I had been notified but missed it. Everything seems to be working as it should, so "false alarm."

[dancad]

1 hour ago, VWatchie said:

That's true, but many vintage wristwatches often hold sentimental value, and for the owner, that value can sometimes be on par with luxury watches. This creates a strong incentive to service and repair them. Often, though not always, the owner wishes to preserve the original movement, even though it would, when possible, be cheaper to replace it entirely.

It’s not possible to replace the original mainspring with a Swiss replacement spring, something I discovered after completing the service. The problem is that the bridle on the Swiss mainspring is thinner than on the original spring, which causes the spring to slip far too early. This, in turn, significantly reduces the power reserve. I recommend using the original mainspring. Here is a very interesting video on the subject.

There’s a good chance they might fit, and it’s worth a try, but there’s no guarantee. There are differences between Orient and Seiko movements, but hopefully, they use the same Diafix springs.

This watch was my first automatic watch I bought around 8 years ago and I still love it so of course it holds some sentimental value and I intend of keeping it.

Since I bumped into your "how to" thread I said I might give it a go and service it myself, after I did some training on some chinese seagull ST36. I already placed an order for the DiaFix springs and the main spring thanks to @AndyGSifor pointing me to the right shop. Exiting times

 

 

[VWatchie]

10 minutes ago, dancad said:

I already placed an order for the DiaFix springs and the main spring

That sounds really good! Save the ordered mainspring for another day and use the original spring instead. Modern mainsprings last "forever" so you don't have to worry about it being worn. As long as it's not damaged it should be good. Worst case scenario it may give you an hour or two less of power reserve than a brand new original spring but it won't affect amplitude much, if at all.

Edited January 27 by VWatchie

[dancad]

Unfortunately I tried to put back the spring by hand which was a terrible mistake (I followed a guy on youtube) so, even though it's doable with a lot of attention, I would not do that again.

I think it was a good call to replace the entire mainspring since on the timegrapher, before opening the watch, it had a really low amplitude, of around 169 but with the standard lift angle of 52. @VWatchie do you perhaps know what is the lift angle of this watch ? I couldn't find this info online.

 

[AndyGSi]

Google AI shows this.

[dancad]

17 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

Google AI shows this.

So not that far from the standard. Good to know, thank you.

[dancad]

Oh boy....the parts arrived from Cousinsuk but the two different DiaFix springs are completely different shape and size that the ones I need: one model is way too big, and it looks like it's the same shape for majority of Incablocs and the other is way smaller and it also has a different shape...it was a long shot anyway.

As for the mainspring, it's also slightly bigger than the inner diameter of the mainspring barrel which I had to place manually instead of pushing it down from it's case like you did @VWatchiein your "how to" thread. I wonder if you had any issues placing the new spring in ?

I measured the GR spring diameter and it was slighlty above 11mm compared to 10.5 clearance on the barrel side. This made impossible to simply push down the spring from it's case into the barrel. 

In Berlin, where I live, some watchmakers decline to service this watch, stating the likelihood that certain parts may need replacement. They also said that components for this movement are notoriously hard to source.

I am thinking now to look for a used movement or even watch, to replace those missing parts as it seems impossible to find the exact same springs for this movement.

[VWatchie]

On 1/27/2025 at 12:30 PM, dancad said:

Unfortunately I tried to put back the spring by hand which was a terrible mistake (I followed a guy on youtube) so, even though it's doable with a lot of attention, I would not do that again.

Even though it is feasible and sometimes even necessary, the best option is of course to use a mainspring winder. For example, it is more practical to wind in mainsprings with T-shaped bridles by hand, as it can otherwise be difficult to get the bridle to fit into the hole in the mainspring barrel.

5 hours ago, dancad said:

I measured the GR spring diameter and it was slighlty above 11mm compared to 10.5 clearance on the barrel side.

Regardless, as I previously mentioned, GR mainsprings do not work particularly well in Japan-made automatic movements, as the bridle on Japanese mainsprings is much thicker and there are no notches on the inside of the mainspring barrel. This is why I strongly recommend using the original mainspring.

5 hours ago, dancad said:

Oh boy....the parts arrived from Cousinsuk but the two different DiaFix springs are completely different shape and size that the ones I need

It's sad to hear, but it's just as I suspected. Taking chances in this industry rarely works out.

5 hours ago, dancad said:

I wonder if you had any issues placing the new spring in ?

It was so long ago that, unfortunately, I don’t remember any details.

5 hours ago, dancad said:

I am thinking now to look for a used movement or even watch, to replace those missing parts as it seems impossible to find the exact same springs for this movement.

Unfortunately, I believe it is the only possible option.

[dancad]

Hey @VWatchiethank you for the reply.

I am looking for an used movement but again, 46E40 cannot be found anywhere ...however I found a list with similar calibers from the 46 family...so I will probably give it a shot, what else can I do ?! 

I am very stubborn because I want to get this watch fixed ! If that takes time, no problem...in parallel I am practicing on cheap vintage watches.