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Omega 28.10 RA diagnosis checklist - experienced eye needed


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1 hour ago, AndyGSi said:

Do you not think the jewel is just too big?

Either that or it's just not seated correctly?

On some you can get the tail caught a weird way , still get it closed, but not correctly. But could also be a case where the original cap jewel should be thin, but it was replaced with a thick one. Incabloc offered versions with thick jewels on the movement side, apparently it was studied and found that that jewel takes the most abuse on the wrist.

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10 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

On some you can get the tail caught a weird way , still get it closed, but not correctly. But could also be a case where the original cap jewel should be thin, but it was replaced with a thick one. Incabloc offered versions with thick jewels on the movement side, apparently it was studied and found that that jewel takes the most abuse on the wrist.

Or the top and bottom jewels are different on this calibre? And mixed up during reassembly? 

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Replaced “borrowed” balance from working movement and runs beautifully. You are right about the balance/hair spring. I don’t think I have it in me to replace a hair spring. Will be an aspirational goal. 

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3 minutes ago, tb1982 said:

Replaced “borrowed” balance from working movement and runs beautifully. You are right about the balance/hair spring. I don’t think I have it in me to replace a hair spring. Will be an aspirational goal. 

So how do the top jewels compare?

1 hour ago, Knebo said:

Or the top and bottom jewels are different on this calibre? And mixed up during reassembly? 

Top & Bottom Jewels should be the same 122.11

image.thumb.png.184e15145ac668194a6742bd9c1fbcca.png

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On 1/17/2025 at 1:10 AM, JohnR725 said:

notice my quote of me? sometimes in my long-winded messages things may be perhaps get lost. But there's a reference to the spring and the entire watch can stop which I believe you're having now? which is why when you're having a problematic running watch you do not put things on that you do not need. So for instance you can remove the bridge and remove the pinion and see if the watch will run. 

the problem with this type of way of driving a secondhand is you end up with too much play between the driving gear and pinion. so basically that little tiny play in the pinion translates to the secondhand and the secondhand will drift around by quite a bit. so the spring has to provide enough force to keep the pinion in place but not to either stop the watch worst-case or reduce the amplitude down to an unacceptable amount.

 

jewels appear to be the same size, was able to seat the inca bloc spring no problem. But the balance sring 

 

1 hour ago, AndyGSi said:

So how do the top jewels compare?

Top & Bottom Jewels should be the same 122.11

image.thumb.png.184e15145ac668194a6742bd9c1fbcca.png

jewels appear to be the same size....was able to seat the inca bloc spring. 

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13 hours ago, VWatchie said:

Perhaps I am missing something, but what you're saying sounds absurd. If the end shake needs to be increased, the jewel should be adjusted, no?!

Just looked into it: The Omega calibre 28.10 RA does not have a jewel on the pallet fork cock. Instead, this movement uses a simple bushing for the pivot of the pallet fork on the cock side. Perhaps the only way to increase the shake is to do as you suggest. I must say it sounds somewhat "brutal", but I guess it is what it is.

Well, there is no difference if there is jewel or bushing. Both can be adjusted by jewel setting tool. What I proposed is a kind of short cut. I am sure OP has no jewel setting tool and is not ready to work with one. Bending pallet fork cock is like bending the balance cock. It will not be needed to bend it more than 0.01mm, rather invisible amount, to ensure some free play if the staff is really without such free play. But it is not the case here.

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16 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

Well, there is no difference if there is jewel or bushing. Both can be adjusted by jewel setting tool. What I proposed is a kind of short cut. I am sure OP has no jewel setting tool and is not ready to work with one. Bending pallet fork cock is like bending the balance cock. It will not be needed to bend it more than 0.01mm, rather invisible amount, to ensure some free play if the staff is really without such free play. But it is not the case here.

Do you not think that the wrong or poor fitting top jewel could be causing problems with the balance swing?

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OP, probably the spring is touching the balance cock where the arrow shows, or may be under the circle near the arrow. But we still need good pictures from the side (this side). IMG_7280.thumb.jpeg.69fa15f37b0a1d29bd5b7fc8e7beb77d.thumb.jpeg.3b71777578d782f4463305872a135e57.jpeg

To repair such spring touching, you need to slightly twist the spring near the stud like I have shown in similar case, just the arrow is in the opposite direction as there the spring was touching the balance arm

IMG_9556.thumb.jpeg.f6f87495380c4d98b16fb5b6a732943c.thumb.jpeg.8494d516888c1e37d29e337196e51f29.jpeg

Another thing, though it is not so critical. The spring is not well centered and needs some tweaking where shown. Put sharp needle there between the coils and press a little in direction shown

image.png.e20f565046b72ee6f93e4fcf696893f5.png.ea953d483d3cb9ae958d53748358ef70.png

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9 hours ago, praezis said:

The owner unscrewed the back and to my sheer horror he took a 30 cm kitchen knife and tried to nudge the balance wheel!

Reminds me a bit of the Hodinkee interview with collector John Goldberger, where he picks up the cheese knife from their charcuterie board and uses it to pry open his priceless chronographs. https://youtu.be/NgSYZIUrRkw?t=408

 

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11 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

Do you not think that the wrong or poor fitting top jewel could be causing problems with the balance swing?

As @nickelsilver said, it could be so. Actually, if the entire jewel setting sits tilted, but this doesn't seems to me to be the case. If the cap jewel is small it can fall directly on the hole stone and thus limit the axial free play. But again, doesn't seem to me to be the case. We need OP to confirm if there is axial free play, but it seems to be hard for him to understand what is correct free play.

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14 minutes ago, mbwatch said:

Reminds me a bit of the Hodinkee interview with collector John Goldberger, where he picks up the cheese knife from their charcuterie board and uses it to pry open his priceless chronographs. https://youtu.be/NgSYZIUrRkw?t=408

 

The secret is out! The cheese residue on the knife adds some extra great lubrication.

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36 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

As @nickelsilver said, it could be so. Actually, if the entire jewel setting sits tilted, but this doesn't seems to me to be the case. If the cap jewel is small it can fall directly on the hole stone and thus limit the axial free play. But again, doesn't seem to me to be the case. We need OP to confirm if there is axial free play, but it seems to be hard for him to understand what is correct free play.

Maybe @tb1982 could post photos of the jewels from the working and non-working balances both in an out of the bridge.

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I'm going to eventually have to face the painful learning curve of replacing a spring on a balance aren't I......?? My "supply" of 3 vintage balances has come to an end, and have destroyed 2/3 trying to adjust collet for beat error. 

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57 minutes ago, tb1982 said:

I'm going to eventually have to face the painful learning curve of replacing a spring on a balance aren't I......?? My "supply" of 3 vintage balances has come to an end, and have destroyed 2/3 trying to adjust collet for beat error. 

You just need to slow down your approach to handling really small delicate parts. A light touch is required and practice...a lot of practice.

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1 hour ago, tb1982 said:

I'm going to eventually have to face the painful learning curve of replacing a spring on a balance aren't I......?? My "supply" of 3 vintage balances has come to an end, and have destroyed 2/3 trying to adjust collet for beat error. 

Sorry mate.. I know how that feels. 

Keep them and practice hairspring manipulation on them. Maybe you can get one of them back to working. Or did the hairspring snap completely? 

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2 hours ago, tb1982 said:

My "supply" of 3 vintage balances has come to an end, and have destroyed 2/3 trying to adjust collet for beat error. 

You probably already realise this but these aren't the balances to be practicing on.

image.thumb.png.4ee78f1b64c019a27f618d92a88225bf.png

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