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Have I broken this balance beyond repair?


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So I’m not sure how I did this but I was reassembling my test movement and couldn’t get the balance in. I had a look at it and I’d obviously managed to deform the hairspring somehow. There were two issues:

1) the coils of the spring were much closer together on one side that the other

2) the balance wheel does not rest level when the balance complete is laid on the bench, so maybe the spring is also out of flat?

I had a go at trying to get the hairspring back to circular again with some fine tweezers. It looks better than it did not sure if it is good enough? Or was that a terrible thing to try and do?

Ive attached photos of where we are at the moment  

Currently when the balance complete is laid flat the wheel does not spin freely however; one of the arms of the balance wheel catches on the regulator arm, and when I put it in the movement it seems like the same thing is happening. So the wheel is being pushed out of level by the spring I think  

From what I can tell both of the pivots are OK. 

Is there any prospect of a newbie being able to flatten the hairspring? If so I’d appreciate any suggestions. 

Thanks, Bill

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Nothing frightful happened. In the position of the balance as on the picture, grasp where show with tweezers (tweezers are vertical) and twist the portion between the stud and tweezers  by rotating the tweezers as shown with arrow. Check and do until the spring stays parallel to the cock. I guess You expect that balance must stay upright in this position - no, this is not so. But if You support the balance upright, the spring mus stay parallel and not touching anything.

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1 hour ago, nevenbekriev said:

In the position of the balance as on the picture, grasp where show with tweezers (tweezers are vertical) and twist the portion between the stud and tweezers  by rotating the tweezers as shown with arrow.

Thanks but I’m afraid I don’t understand which part you are referring to to twist - not sure if maybe you included a picture with your reply that did not upload properly?

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If you look vertically down on the spring between stud and adjuster, you can see where it is twisted slightly from the light reflection.

I find this adjustment easier with the balance mounted on the movement. You can then see when you have adjusted it enough. (Of course you will turn the tweezers the other direction working from the top)

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Just a quick update and to say thanks again;  I managed to get the hairspring back into shape. I disconnected the spring from the balance bridge just to see if I could (man the screw that holds the spring in place is small) as I figured I had nothing to lose; but it was actually easier to work on the spring without the balance bridge in the way. Then I put it all back together and did some final tweaking. 
My test movement is now running again and lives to fight another day. 

Thanks. 

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21 hours ago, Bill2024 said:

Just a quick update and to say thanks again;  I managed to get the hairspring back into shape. I disconnected the spring from the balance bridge just to see if I could (man the screw that holds the spring in place is small) as I figured I had nothing to lose; but it was actually easier to work on the spring without the balance bridge in the way. Then I put it all back together and did some final tweaking. 
My test movement is now running again and lives to fight another day. 

Thanks. 

Its even easier to work on it with the balance wheel removed. Hairspring adjustment is an art all on its own, and I'm glad it worked out for you. That generally isn't the case for a first time adjuster!

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5 hours ago, SwissSeiko said:

It’s even easier to work on it with the balance wheel removed. Hairspring adjustment is an art all on its own, and I'm glad it worked out for you. That generally isn't the case for a first time adjuster!

It was probably more luck than judgement for my first attempt but I’ll take the win for now! Clearly there are lots of skills to learn. 

I did wonder about taking the balance wheel off as well - it looks like you can use hand levers to remove it?  I was not sure how I’d go about putting it back on though; from what I’ve seen you need a special tool - a staking set?

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Yes, reinstalling the balance spring is one of the many uses of a staking set. I know people use hand levers to lift the collet but I bought a pair of levers specifically for that job https://www.ebay.com.au/ipp/285857052484?transactionId=2628376022018&_trksid=p4429486.m149906.l48352 and they're much better than the cheap as chips hand levers I bought when I was first starting.

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59 minutes ago, GPrideaux said:

Yes, reinstalling the balance spring is one of the many uses of a staking set. I know people use hand levers to lift the collet but I bought a pair of levers specifically for that job https://www.ebay.com.au/ipp/285857052484?transactionId=2628376022018&_trksid=p4429486.m149906.l48352 and they're much better than the cheap as chips hand levers I bought when I was first starting.

Thanks. I have a set of horotec 2.5mm hand levers but I think the tips might be too thick. I can’t view the link you posted but I can look for levers specifically for hairspring collets. 

I might also start looking at staking sets and their uses - so many different tools 😀

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8 hours ago, Bill2024 said:

It was probably more luck than judgement for my first attempt but I’ll take the win for now! Clearly there are lots of skills to learn. 

I did wonder about taking the balance wheel off as well - it looks like you can use hand levers to remove it?  I was not sure how I’d go about putting it back on though; from what I’ve seen you need a special tool - a staking set?

You can press the collet on by hand with the correct sized tube. it's not so difficult if you are careful, there are also other simple devices to do the job, I've never actually used a staking set to do it.

You might find correcting a twist easier this way.....normally you would anchor the hairspring with one pair of tweezers ( anchoring pair )but If the twist is very close to the stud that may not be required as the stud forms the anchoring point. With second pair of tweezers (correcting pair) hold them slightly open over the twist then set them at the angle you feel is right for the correction then close them together and release slowly. This way there is no wrist movement involved in the manoeuvre only finger pressure. Try it on some scrap springs and see how it works for you, i feel that I have much more control over the operation. 

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8 minutes ago, Bill2024 said:

@Neverenoughwatches thanks. I’m going to try and practice this. Do you use any particular tweezers?  I have two pairs at the moment a dumont #2 and the #5 which I used to manipulate the spring. 

I like to have the sides of my hands on my bench for stability, i manage that by using bent tweezers no. 7s. I also bend the angle even more than it already is and hold the tweezers slid through my middle of my fingers.

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3 hours ago, Bill2024 said:

@Neverenoughwatches thanks. I’m going to try and practice this. Do you use any particular tweezers?  I have two pairs at the moment a dumont #2 and the #5 which I used to manipulate the spring. 

Dumont #7s are my go to tweezer for this. Ideally 2 pairs, but they are expensive. For me, my income depends on them so I shell out for the nice ones. I've tried cheap tweezers and they just don't hold up. Sure you can polish and shape them how you want, but the biggest issue I found was the closing force of cheaper tweezers. They are just too strong.  Dumont's are just right. Gosh I must have $600 in tweezers alone! maybe I should cut back...

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1 hour ago, SwissSeiko said:

Dumont's are just right. Gosh I must have $600 in tweezers alone! maybe I should cut back...

Wow impressive; I have a long way to go to match that but I always try to buy the best I can afford so then I cant blame the tools! I'll get a pair of the Dumont antimagnetic #7's.

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1 hour ago, SwissSeiko said:

Dumont #7s are my go to tweezer for this. Ideally 2 pairs, but they are expensive. For me, my income depends on them so I shell out for the nice ones. I've tried cheap tweezers and they just don't hold up. Sure you can polish and shape them how you want, but the biggest issue I found was the closing force of cheaper tweezers. They are just too strong.  Dumont's are just right. Gosh I must have $600 in tweezers alone! maybe I should cut back...

Same here, one pair of Dumont 7s, St. Bride hairspring tweezers and some cheap brass ones that i bent to almost 90 ° . Then maybe 30 pairs of Dumont 2s 4s and 5s that made their way to me through joblots, then a bunch of wierd shaped stuff that i keep on the bench

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