Ansonia 158 mantle clock. Gear appears to be installed backwards.

[robgau]

I cleaned and oiled the movement on this Ansonia 158 mantle clock but it still won't run. When pins are disengaged from the gear on the front of the clock the gear spins freely and advances the minute hand. from what I can tell it looks like someone who worked on this clock installed the gear backwards. The rounded side of the pins contacts the flat side of the gear teeth. I think the curved side of the pin should contact the curved side of the gear teeth. Is there a way to turn this gear around?

Thanks

Robert

[oldhippy]

Looks as if it has been set at the wrong angle. Have a look at this.

 

[HectorLooi]

You have a Brocot escapement clock. The orientation of the pallets is correct but it might need some tweaking. 

Have you cleaned the movement? The escape wheel looks filthy.

[robgau]

Update. After close inspection and looking at a similar Ansonia mantle clock, I've determined the gear is installed correctly. I found out someone previously worked on the main spring. Not sure if this could be the problem. The shaft for the main spring does not appear to be inserted all the way into the bushing and the gear on the front of the main spring looks like it might be partially binding against the shoulder of the gear in front of it. It's also not tracking in the center of the pins that drive the next gear. The teeth on the main spring gear have a little wear on them. I don't think it would take much to get this clock running again. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[robgau]

On 1/1/2025 at 4:22 PM, oldhippy said:

Looks as if it has been set at the wrong angle. Have a look at this.

 

Thanks! I'll check it out.

[robgau]

On 1/1/2025 at 4:22 PM, HectorLooi said:

You have a Brocot escapement clock. The orientation of the pallets is correct but it might need some tweaking. 

Have you cleaned the movement? The escape wheel looks filthy.

Sorry. I'm new to clocks. I did not remove the movement from the clock. I cleaned the divets front and back and re-oiled those. Did not clean gears. Was trying to see what it would take to get it working again before I invested a lot of time. Was hesitant to remove the movement from the case. I got the chime working on one of the grandfather clocks I inherited by removing the chime and cleaning / re-oiling. Just a little nervous on this one. Will watch the video and check the angle for the escapement.

[oldhippy]

Something funny here (see marks)  The removement run on what are called lantern pinions they will run well even if the teeth are not as they should be, they are supposed lose in the pivot holes not like the fixed pinions. Whatever you do before taking it apart you need to get a set of mainspring clamps.   

[robgau]

Does the angle on the pins for the escape wheel look correct?

[robgau]

7 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Something funny here (see marks)  The removement run on what are called lantern pinions they will run well even if the teeth are not as they should be, they are supposed lose in the pivot holes not like the fixed pinions. Whatever you do before taking it apart you need to get a set of mainspring clamps.   

Yes, I noticed that. Planned on getting a let down tool to release the mainspring before I try to look at that. Does the chime spring need to be let down as well?

[HectorLooi]

I really hate American clocks. I've only ever done one and it has given me a phobia.

The open springs are a real pain in the a#&$. You need to wind them up to make them small enough to put a C clamp that @oldhippy mentioned around them, then let down the spring until it is captured and has no more power.

Then you have parts that they call using different names from European clocks. Like the crutch, which must have been designed by an evil Chinese puzzle creator, which has to be turned, backed up into some corner so that it can be rotated out from between the plates. Why the heck are they made this way?

I can't find any decent videos on YouTube that can help you. There are some from Scotties Clock but he's someone I would stay away from.

 

[LittleWatchShop]

Now now, Hector...we can get you through this without getting an emotional support critter.

What clock are you working on? Pictures?

I have worked on many and don't really find them challenging. The open spring is just a tiny bother. You need to be careful how you place the C clamp so it does not get in the way.

Yeah, all the little springs here and there can be a pain.

Buck up! It's a new year!!

[watchweasol]

Hi with the springs I use strong wire wrapped round and twisted so as to prevent unwinding. It’s thin enough to be out of the way and can be removed in a winder no problem.     Have a strong Coffee Hector or a cold shower. Which ever is the most efficacious 

[RichardHarris123]

Come on gentleman, this site is famously friendly, let's keep it that way.  I consider both of you friends. 

[Curare]

Hi,

I have a Ansonia mantel clock with the Brocot Escapement which I restored and repaired in 2018.

I was on holidays in New Zealand and visited the Dunedin castle in Dunedin NZ, in the great hall they had this Ansonia mantel clock ticking away and immediately I said to my wife I want one of these.

Mission impossible ????

Anyway two weeks later in the town of Reefton NZ on the west coast of the south island, I went into an antique shop and they had two of them exactly the same model as in the castle. One was working for $700 NZ and the other not working was $200NZ as I had restored and repaired quite a few Enfield mantle clocks I bought the non working one for $200 NZ.

It was from a deceased estate from Christchurch NZ and I believed it is dated late 1890's to early 1910 ?

Now how to get it home to Australia without damaging the case, it was constructed from Belgium Black Marble and weighed 10 kilograms.

Quick trip the the hardware store for some bubble wrap and heaps of tape and carried it on the plane as carry on luggage.

Anyway it was missing one of the jewels in the Brocot Escapment, most people repair them with steel pins as seen above but i managed to get a correct jewel from the USA and shellacked it back in at an angle that I viewed on the internet from several photos.

Disassembled the movement cleaned and lubricated and made repairs to  the case.

Worked perfectly from the start as soon as the pendulum was fitted. 

It is a beautiful piece.

Photo attached to assist you in your repair.

I also have a video but cannot upload it, I use a mac and the file ends in .mov I converted it to .mp4 but it still would not accept it, any ideas ??

Edited January 3 by Curare

[tomh207]

@Curare the forum does not accept video files, you have to post them to YouTube or similar and then you can post a link to it here.

 

Tom

[Curare]

6 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

@Curare the forum does not accept video files, you have to post them to YouTube or similar and then you can post a link to it here.

 

Tom

Thanks

[HectorLooi]

4 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

What clock are you working on? Pictures?

That was several years ago. It was a Waterbury Brocot escapement movement in very bad shape that I had bought to practice on. I can't seem to find the pictures.

The ruby pallets were broken and I had to make new pallets out of pivot steel, then fully harden and polish them. The movement works fine now but I'm still waiting for a suitable case to turn up on eBay to complete the project.

Anyway, Scottie's video on putting the clamps on is actually quite good. Just ignore the first part of his video.

I did actually work on another American clock, a Seth Thomas ship's clock. That wasn't too bad. I didn't need to suck my thumb and snuggle up to my Winnie the Pooh.

I did find the thread that I posted a couple of years ago.

[robgau]

Do the flat side of the pallets need to be smooth. Mine are pretty rough.

[HectorLooi]

Theoretically... no. But it'll look nicer if they're shiny.

[oldhippy]

5 hours ago, robgau said:

Do the flat side of the pallets need to be smooth. Mine are pretty rough.

Yes they do as it helps the whole escapement, but do not file them you should use a very fine emery stick the finest you can buy or Crocus Polishing Paper. I can help with the complete repair of these clocks as I have restored a hell of of lot of them. I see many don't like them and I can understand why they are not a patch on clocks from England and other countries. 

[robgau]

Are the crutch? and bar attached to the pendulum suspension spring supposed to be straight up and down when the 2 pallets are centered on the sides of the escapement wheel? On my clock the "crutch" looks like it has been bent by the person who worked on this clock previously. When the pallets are centered on the sides of the escapement wheel, the crutch and suspension spring bar look to be on the left and right side of the center of the back. Not sure if it's by design but the holes in the bracket that hold the suspension spring assembly appear to be high on the right and low on the left. See pictures below. Thanks for all the comments and help.

[robgau]

Making progress. It's running but we'll see if it's still running in the morning. Having a bit of trouble setting the beat.

[oldhippy]

The screw holes are round so that is the way it is. before you tighten the screws are you able to move the cock if so that will alter the beat. You do find clock crutches get bent it can take a while to get the perfect beat. 

[HectorLooi]

What is the correct way to adjust the beat in this type of clock?

I ended up having to bend the crutch and suspension spring in mine to get it in beat.

[watchweasol]

Hi Hector if there is no adjustment in the cock (elongated holes) that’s the way I do it. Adjust the crutch.  A way to tell you which way is tilt the clock untill the beat is even then move the crutch to the high side .