How to find watch movements and where to start.

[Mallard]

Hi everyone! 

This may be a pretty dumb question to ask but what's the use of this forum if I can't ask dumb questions, am i right?

Where do I start learning about watch movements? Should I start on learning about the history of watchmaking and the big name watchmakers? 

Or should I get into the nitty gritty right away and start taking apart a seiko movement? I have basically zero knowledge and I don't know how you guys buy stuff off e-bay!

Is it just trial and error all the way? Where should I start?

Thanks!

[AndyGSi]

A good place to start would be to get a watch that's running, take it apart then put it back together and see if it still runs the same.

A lot will come down to what tools you've got and what you're hoping to achieve?

[RichardHarris123]

If you mean for repair, then you can't beat getting your hands dirty, follow @AndyGSi advice. If you mean in general, then reading, videos and  getting your hands dirty. 

[oldhippy]

You should start with a pocket watch. They are very much like a bog standard watch movement but much bigger, take it all apart and put it all back. You don't need to bother getting it to work. By doing this you will learn how to use your eyeglass,   tweezers and your watchmakers screwdrivers. Keep doing this as they say practice makes perfect. Do not touch fusee pocket watch movements as they are completely different.  

[Neverenoughwatches]

I read...a lot...and spend a fair amount of time visiting the forum...again reading a lot. Youtube ...not so much, in fact one of my biggest mistakes was made because of following a Youtubers cleaning process.  So be careful who you watch and advice you follow...Chronoglide, nekkid watchmaker and saving time are about the only ones I watch now. Researching brand history has helped seek out particular movement calibers. All of this is pointless though unless you dive into a movement, the theory you are learning from books etc must be put into practise, lots and lots of practice. I would start by just learning to handle tweezers and screwdrivers. Even when I wasn't repairing anything I would spend half an hour a day just using the two main tools on scrap parts and movements.

[Klassiker]

18 hours ago, Mallard said:

Where do I start learning about watch movements?

If your aim is to understand the functionality, so that you can one day maintain and repair them, then there is no substitute for practical experience. The question of which movement(s) to begin learning on has been discussed thoroughly on this forum already.

There are many good books on the subject, which have also been recommended here.

Even better than books to begin with are good videos. Youtube is full of bad videos. Long-winded, bad practice, edited to make the "talent" look good instead of educating etc. etc. so you need some experience to tell bad from good. The owner of this forum, Mark Lovick, made some very good how to videos a few years ago which you can still view on Youtube. I can recommend those without reservation. He also sells a course of educational videos if you want to learn more.

[tomh207]

A lot depends on what you want to accomplish, repair and maintenance is a lot different than an interest in Horology in general or watchmaking of high complications.

assuming that you want to get into understanding basic watch operations, maintenance and repair here are some suggestions on how I would liked to have approached it but I didn’t know of this forum at the time.

purchase a couple of cheap chines ST36,3600,3620 movements. These are based on Swiss movements, simple basic watches originally intended as small pocket watch movements. As @oldhippysays the size of pocket watch movements make a big difference. At the end of the education below you’ll have at least one working watch movement and there are loads of cases, dials and hands on Aliexpress to make a nice watch which will be a source of pride to wear for you. I say at least one because we have all killed a movement in our starting phase and the potential of doing it again follows us for life but drastically decreases with practice.

a book reccomendation would be maintaining and repairing mechanical watches, a practical guide by Mark W. Wiles ISBN 978 1 78500 155 0. This is a modern book with the simple philosophy of teaching the basics of repair, servicing and operation of “modern “ watches.

i also recommend our host @Mark watch repair channel on YouTube and his excellent, clear and concise courses at watchfix.com. Economical and gets you working practically on those movements you bought above.

for tool recommendations starting out look at https://www.watchfix.com/2019/09/30/essential-day-1-tools/ here on this very site.

as to lubricants I’ll leave that to you to research and come to your own conclusions, you’ll understand why quite quickly, I think.

this will get you a long way in getting to grips with watches and is the leader path onto the true nature of this as a hobby, the collection of tools.

 

Tom

Edited December 23, 2024 by tomh207
Added to comment

[Nucejoe]

 Buy two scrap pocket watches of same caliber, to eventually make a good one out of the two. You also would have your own spare parts dept, used parts ofcourse.

You need help to decide what to buy. So ask questions .

 Shouldn't  even think of repair without the right tool, so you need help on that as well. Ask questions

 Attack the non runner piece first. Take photos and  Ask questions

 Keep the second piece untouched, so you have an actual guide for which part go where.

As said practice tearing down and reassembling,  Let us know when you feel you have gained the dexterity to safely attack the second piece. 

 Buy then you have learned enough so we can understand what your saying.

Stay with Mark's vid , so you learn and  we speak same terminologies.

Take Mark's courses when you think you understand what he teaches. 

We'll work with you to make a good runner out of the two watches you have.

By then you should know, if you enjoy watch repair and decide if you want to continue or not.

Next comes buying more tools.

Rgds

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Waggy]

Hi there, sorry I'm a little late to the discussion, but if I had my time back again I would buy two or three of the below (or similar - Amazon, Temu etc):

Price can't be beat as you would struggle to pick up a working beater of eBay for this price, and you know its working so if you work on it and it isn't working at the end then you did something wrong. If you buy a non-runner and it doesn't work at the end then who's fault is it? I know it's a little counter intuitive to start on working watches rather than non-runners, but hopefully my explanation makes sense. If you buy two or three and you break something, then you have whole watch of spares to fix it with rather than trawling eBay to find some obscure part. Also on older pocket watches, often the parts (even on the same make/moment) are NOT interchangeable, often due to less reproducible manufacturing techniques the parts are positioned uniquely to mesh together on the main-plate, so a replacement part (in the very unlikely situation you can find a spare part) may not mesh correctly - so I would avoid older pocket watches for this reason.

The example above is probably not a Swiss movement, but when starting out it's more important to get used to using the tools and after all, all movements at their core (Swiss or not) are all the same, the only significant difference comes with the complications like automatic module, day/date etc...

Hope this helps

[RichardHarris123]

11 minutes ago, Waggy said:

there, sorry I'm a little late to the discussion, but if I had my time back again I would buy two or three of the below (or similar - Amazon, Temu etc

I think a skeleton watch would be great for observing the way the movement works but poor to work on.  The bridges lack strength. 

Edited December 23, 2024 by RichardHarris123

[Waggy]

7 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

The bridges lack strength.

Good point, maybe a regular (non-skeletonised) version at this price point

[GPrideaux]

The best advice I would give is to understand that you will lose and break parts so your first attempts should be on movements that don't matter much to you and that you can easily acquire replacement parts for. The more you practice the less likely you are to break/lose bits but that possibility never goes away entirely, I suspect. You also need to have the right tools for the job. I started with some cheap jewellers screwdrivers and steel tweezers that I had had for years, but I could never completely demagnetize them and the tweezers were still and the job became a hundred times easier when I got some proper anti-magnetic tools. (Many here recommend tungsten tweezers; I don't have any of those yet. I suspect the acquisition of tools is also a never-ending part of the pursuit.)

[way2wyrd]

I got interested by watching some of the YouTube videos. Quickly saw the diff between content (which isn't horrible) and professionals.  

From there i pulled some non working pocket watches off fleabay and an st36.  Disassembled , cleaned , oiled , regulated.   Rinse wash repeat.

Had a few misshaps but didn't dwell on them.

Tools, get some good quality ones used or new. It makes a world of difference.

Read up. Decarle, fried , daniels. 

Reread. Watch more YouTube. ( yes even the popular ones)

Buy more tools. 

The biggest difference for me was getting a microscope.  Take a million pics then take a million more.

Try and form good habits every time you do something. Finger cots was the one I had to and still have to make sure I do.

Don't take short cuts it will F*_! you.

Buy more tools

Most of all enjoy the hobby the process and the science

 

 

[fellerts]

On 12/23/2024 at 9:28 AM, tomh207 said:

this will get you a long way in getting to grips with watches and is the leader path onto the true nature of this as a hobby, the collection of tools.

I'd like to share a blog post that I feel is very relevant to this discussion. Replace "Reddit" with "watchrepairtalk" and I think it applies perfectly here.

https://brooker.co.za/blog/2023/04/20/hobbies.html

Being conscious of which quadrant you fall into is key, I think, to enjoying any hobby. There are members on this forum that can MacGyver their way around most any problem with a toothpick, some scrap brass and rodico, and others who will spend days and/or fortunes on obtaining the _perfect_ tool for the job. Learn to spot the difference and think about what type of hobbyist you are (or want to be).

[spectre6000]

Pocket watches were probably a great source once upon a time, but they're really not as plentiful as they once were,  are much more expensive than they once were, and parts are much more challenging to acquire. The large size is likely a good stepping stone, but it's not like we're talking tiny women's movements. A typical men's wristwatch size movement is large enough, and it's what you're most likely to be working on anyway.

The ultra cheap chinese stuff is good cost-wise. Parts are a problem again, but you can pick up whole watches somewhat reliably (subject to batch size), and that's not nothing. Quality is obviously poor, and it may not work out of the box for reasons other than dirt. Might even be able to find something you'd want to wear? Maybe...?

Any thread on the subject of finding movements to learn on wouldn't be complete if I didn't chime in with 404s (watches purchased under £4.04 plus shipping). Get a mid-grade fully jeweled Swiss movement in a mens watch case size that you stand a chance of finding parts for. You're looking for them to tick a little (compare second hand location between photos if it's not explicitly stated), but not really run all the way, which usually means they just need a clean. Depending on your location, you can get in very inexpensively. Low cost of entry, parts availability, similarity to what you're likely actually wanting to work on, and a level of quality that ensures you stand a chance of success. Plus, when you're done, you might even want to wear your first success! They're a bit harder to find, but I've snagged several 404 vintage mens watches in reasonably modern sizes with full stainless steel cases, mid-grade quality, fully jeweled Swiss movements that I wouldn't hesitate to wear on a daily basis.