Landeron 189 reverser spring issues

[Barnaby]

As you can see from the photo, the reverser spring is slightly deformed (both of the thin parts). This means the start/stop doesn't work consistently. I've attempted to straighten the bits that seem bent, but without success. The operation of the part is very complex, so it's hard to work out just by looking how it should function. I'm familiar with the other Landerons where stop is the top button and start is the bottom button, but this my first time with the 189, where start and stop are both top button.

Yes I know that the retaining screw for the hammer isn't present...this is not affecting things.

Do I just need to replace the part, or is the way to salvage it?

 

[AndyGSi]

Something doesn't look quite right  as though it's already a replacement that someone's made.

Edit

These 2 screw also look out of place along with another couple of parts so I think someone's already been in here.

Double Edit

Just realised what I thought was part of the spring isn't and it does look correct.

I can't see why you shouldn't be able to flatten it on a block.

 

Edited December 21, 2024 by AndyGSi

[nevenbekriev]

I wonder what 'reverser spring' should mean, but I guess that reset lever regulating screw is tightenned too much. Untighten it and the both parts of the lever will close. The lever must be regulated as when seconds counter heart is pressed tight by the lever, the heart of minutes counter to have a little free play (+/- 0.25min by the counter dial)

[Barnaby]

part #8147 is the reverser spring

It's rivetted to the top of the operating lever

[AndyGSi]

50 minutes ago, Barnaby said:

part #8147 is the reverser spring

It's rivetted to the top of the operating lever

You should still be able to straighten it with a steel block.

[Klassiker]

Your only option may be to repair this one. A replacement is seemingly not so easy to come by. I agree with @AndyGSi that you should be able to get the kinks out by e.g. hammering against a steel block. If the exact form is critical, and you have no reference, you will need to understand the functionality and tune it bit by bit. All part of the fun!

[nevenbekriev]

Sorry, now I see what You mean. You can attempt to straighten it, and if it breaks, then new spring can be made and riveted

[Barnaby]

4 hours ago, Klassiker said:

you will need to understand the functionality and tune it bit by bit

This is the issue. The movement of this part is quite complex and it's quite hard to work out how it should be behaving- i.e exactly how it gets the reverser to, well, ...reverse. If anyone has a working Landeron 189 then a video clip of the part in question would be greatly appreciated!

[AndyGSi]

29 minutes ago, Barnaby said:

This is the issue. The movement of this part is quite complex and it's quite hard to work out how it should be behaving- i.e exactly how it gets the reverser to, well, ...reverse. If anyone has a working Landeron 189 then a video clip of the part in question would be greatly appreciated!

Here's a video of the 149 in operation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5FE4KxsSfA

[Barnaby]

I removed the part and tried to straighten it. Problem is that it is also bent in the vertical plane. I've tried bending and twisting and it won't go back into shape. Looks like I need the new part.

[nevenbekriev]

Try to make photos of the part when removed, let us see how the spring looks.

[Barnaby]

[WatchHor]

Same. Except I’ve completely broke my reverser spring. Unique part to the 189 which seems a rare movement. Will be following to see if you can source a new part or find a hack/solution  

[AndyGSi]

37 minutes ago, WatchHor said:

Same. Except I’ve completely broke my reverser spring. Unique part to the 189 which seems a rare movement. Will be following to see if you can source a new part or find a hack/solution  

Which is the part you're looking for?

[AndyGSi]

If it's this version then I do know where you can get one but at around 100 Euro they aren't cheap.

I

[Barnaby]

Yes it's that one. Where can you get them?

[AndyGSi]

33 minutes ago, Barnaby said:

Yes it's that one. Where can you get them?

A friend has a selection of Landeron parts but as he knows it's not for me then I don't think he'd let it go.

[nevenbekriev]

Why don't You try to rectify the spring? What You need to do is to straighten the angle I have shown to a straight line. Don't look at the drawings of the springs, the real ones are just like yours but without that bent. I see the spring is bent a little up, but at first try without rectifying this. If really needed, the rivet may be removed and the spring then can be bent down and then new rivet placed.

Edited Saturday at 04:01 PM by nevenbekriev

[Barnaby]

It is the upward bend that is causing the part not to function. I know this because if I push down on it while operating the pusher everthing works.

I can't correct the bend- I've removed the spring from the operating lever, but if I push down on it with anyting it will just squash the thin metal. I've tried treating it like a hairspring, where you correct upward or downward bends by twisting, but have not succeeded.

[AndyGSi]

20 minutes ago, Barnaby said:

It is the upward bend that is causing the part not to function. I know this because if I push down on it while operating the pusher everthing works.

I can't correct the bend- I've removed the spring from the operating lever, but if I push down on it with anyting it will just squash the thin metal. I've tried treating it like a hairspring, where you correct upward or downward bends by twisting, but have not succeeded.

You need to hold it with pliers at the point where the bend starts as shown by @nevenbekriev and then straighten the other part to suit.

[nevenbekriev]

Remove the spring from the lever again. Put in on soft wood surface upside down (the surface that contacts the lever to be up). The bent place will stay above the surface because the bent. Use tweezers to hold the bent place not letting it twist (hold tweezers vertical). Press on the area with the rivet hole to make it  touch the wood surface and a little more as to make it sink a little, check the result - this should bend the spring in needed direction.

[praezis]

To add to Nev‘s good advice: I would use a small hammer and light taps instead of pushing (can get too much quickly).

Frank

[Barnaby]

3 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

You need to hold it with pliers at the point where the bend starts as shown by @nevenbekriev and then straighten the other part to suit.

thanks, but the bend in the horizontal plane is no longer the issue

3 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

Remove the spring from the lever again. Put in on soft wood surface upside down (the surface that contacts the lever to be up). The bent place will stay above the surface because the bent. Use tweezers to hold the bent place not letting it twist (hold tweezers vertical). Press on the area with the rivet hole to make it  touch the wood surface and a little more as to make it sink a little, check the result - this should bend the spring in needed direction.

This is pretty much what I've tried but I'll give it another go, thanks

[AndyGSi]

36 minutes ago, Barnaby said:

thanks, but the bend in the horizontal plane is no longer the issue

So you're saying it was bent in both directions which isn't visible from the single photo?

Edit

Sorry just seen the earlier photo from the side.

Have you tried placing it in a vice and slowly close it.

Edited Sunday at 06:30 PM by AndyGSi